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Largely crypto seems to fail at being distributed internet money. If a project is fast and cheap enough for it that correlates with being too niche to be viable

Largely crypto seems to fail at being distributed internet money. If a project is fast and cheap enough for it that correlates with being too niche to be viable. We have seen BTC and ETH lose their function as internet money as transactions and prices have gone up.

andrepd 4y ago
Monero is the closest thing to "internet cash", sadly it's not as popular as other alternatives.
rvz 4y ago
> Largely crypto seems to fail at being distributed internet money. If a project is fast and cheap enough for it that correlates with being too niche to be viable. So is that why other 'crypto' like XRP, Stellar, USDC and Algorand are also compliant for the ISO 20022 standard since they are useful at being 'distributed internet money'? [0] > We have seen BTC and ETH lose their function as internet money as transactions and prices have gone up. Both of them have completely failed in their original purposes. [0] https://www.prlog.org/12911340-cryptocurrencies-that-are-iso-20022-compliant.html https://www.prlog.org/12911340-cryptocurrencies-that-are-iso...
janandonly 4y ago
Then you did not look (closely) enough at BTC. When transaction prices went up in 2017 [1] the second layer technology "Lightning" was invented and build-out. Right now, Joe Average, can transact for fractions of pennies. [2] [1] http://melaurent.github.io/spamattack/ http://melaurent.github.io/spamattack/ [2] https://bitcoinist.com/lightning-cnbc-sent-btc-to-a-ukranian-in-poland/ https://bitcoinist.com/lightning-cnbc-sent-btc-to-a-ukranian...
- rvz 4y ago
  Haven't you realised that 'the second layer technology "Lightning"' aka Lightning Network is not Bitcoin and is an off-chain system and is centralised by design which contradicts and defeats the whole purpose of what Bitcoin was built for? [0] [0] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/aba062 https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/aba062
  - Capira 4y ago
    The Lightning Network is decentralised because it is trustless and permissionless. Anyone can send Bitcoins instantly and almost for free. Check out the code to convince yourself. https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning
  - janandonly 4y ago
    So 10% of the total number of lighting nodes holed 80% of the total BTC coins... and that is why it is 'centralized'? I think I have a different definition ...
- BLanen 4y ago
mattwilsonn888 4y ago
Bitcoin being a crypto asset (I know everyone will want to dig in on that moved goal post, but it doesn't matter) is still extremely valuable and a massive step towards its intended goal. As a settlement layer, which is by now clearly what it should be, it is very good, and layer-2 and centralized layer-3 solutions if and when adopted will bring it the rest of the way. There is so much meta talk about crypto on the internet, but no one has the chops to actually talk about the ups and downs, challenges and successes of something like the lightning network, which is perhaps one of the most important developments in the space despite not being a speculative vehicle.
Capira 4y ago
You can use the Lightning Network to send Bitcoins instantly and almost for free.
- Jach 4y ago
  "Can" is doing a lot of work here. I finally got around to playing with Lightning recently, my sense was it's quite a ways away from being ready unless you've got a decent amount of frequent income + spending going through btc. The worst part is it seems poisoned by nodes that want to extract a %-amount fee rather than a flat or bytes-dependent fee. It was actually one US penny more expensive to send a ~$50 lightning transaction via ACINQ (a recommended node that would actually accept opening up a channel) than just sending a normal blockchain transaction, where recently you can pay the minimum 1 sat/byte and get confirmed in not too long. Lightning has promise but the regular chain is still just fine for many use cases especially for normal people, barring those rare periods of exceptionally high transaction fees. A transaction will typically show up in the mempool "instantly" and for many vendors that's good enough; much like the classic written checks system they can trust the purchaser isn't going to try any funny business before the transaction is fully confirmed/settled and you can let them go on their way with their groceries or coffee or whatever. If they do try something (successfully), well, you're out a small amount (maybe, an intermediary like bitpay may tank those for you), and you ban them from your business. For many other types of transactions, even waiting for at least one transaction but not expecting that for 24 hours from now is fine and impacts nothing. My hope is the effective minimum of 1 sat/byte will be decreased because right now it's 9 cents to send the median sized 224 byte transaction and if btc doubles again to $80k USD then the minimum fee doubles to 18 cents without anything changing, that's like an extra pack of ramen. Well it's still not that bad, especially since it's not amount-dependent; my whole state recently mandated grocery stores start charging 8 cents per plastic bag when they used to be free, many people are just personally tanking it and still throwing them out, but everyone would rather pay no fees if they could.

andrepd 4y ago

Monero is the closest thing to "internet cash", sadly it's not as popular as other alternatives.

rvz 4y ago

> Largely crypto seems to fail at being distributed internet money. If a project is fast and cheap enough for it that correlates with being too niche to be viable. So is that why other 'crypto' like XRP, Stellar, USDC and Algorand are also compliant for the ISO 20022 standard since they are useful at being 'distributed internet money'? [0] > We have seen BTC and ETH lose their function as internet money as transactions and prices have gone up. Both of them have completely failed in their original purposes. [0] https://www.prlog.org/12911340-cryptocurrencies-that-are-iso-20022-compliant.html https://www.prlog.org/12911340-cryptocurrencies-that-are-iso...

janandonly 4y ago

Then you did not look (closely) enough at BTC. When transaction prices went up in 2017 [1] the second layer technology "Lightning" was invented and build-out. Right now, Joe Average, can transact for fractions of pennies. [2] [1] http://melaurent.github.io/spamattack/ http://melaurent.github.io/spamattack/ [2] https://bitcoinist.com/lightning-cnbc-sent-btc-to-a-ukranian-in-poland/ https://bitcoinist.com/lightning-cnbc-sent-btc-to-a-ukranian...

rvz 4y ago
Haven't you realised that 'the second layer technology "Lightning"' aka Lightning Network is not Bitcoin and is an off-chain system and is centralised by design which contradicts and defeats the whole purpose of what Bitcoin was built for? [0] [0] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/aba062 https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/aba062
- Capira 4y ago
  The Lightning Network is decentralised because it is trustless and permissionless. Anyone can send Bitcoins instantly and almost for free. Check out the code to convince yourself. https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning
- janandonly 4y ago
  So 10% of the total number of lighting nodes holed 80% of the total BTC coins... and that is why it is 'centralized'? I think I have a different definition ...
BLanen 4y ago

mattwilsonn888 4y ago

Bitcoin being a crypto asset (I know everyone will want to dig in on that moved goal post, but it doesn't matter) is still extremely valuable and a massive step towards its intended goal. As a settlement layer, which is by now clearly what it should be, it is very good, and layer-2 and centralized layer-3 solutions if and when adopted will bring it the rest of the way. There is so much meta talk about crypto on the internet, but no one has the chops to actually talk about the ups and downs, challenges and successes of something like the lightning network, which is perhaps one of the most important developments in the space despite not being a speculative vehicle.

Capira 4y ago

You can use the Lightning Network to send Bitcoins instantly and almost for free.

Jach 4y ago
"Can" is doing a lot of work here. I finally got around to playing with Lightning recently, my sense was it's quite a ways away from being ready unless you've got a decent amount of frequent income + spending going through btc. The worst part is it seems poisoned by nodes that want to extract a %-amount fee rather than a flat or bytes-dependent fee. It was actually one US penny more expensive to send a ~$50 lightning transaction via ACINQ (a recommended node that would actually accept opening up a channel) than just sending a normal blockchain transaction, where recently you can pay the minimum 1 sat/byte and get confirmed in not too long. Lightning has promise but the regular chain is still just fine for many use cases especially for normal people, barring those rare periods of exceptionally high transaction fees. A transaction will typically show up in the mempool "instantly" and for many vendors that's good enough; much like the classic written checks system they can trust the purchaser isn't going to try any funny business before the transaction is fully confirmed/settled and you can let them go on their way with their groceries or coffee or whatever. If they do try something (successfully), well, you're out a small amount (maybe, an intermediary like bitpay may tank those for you), and you ban them from your business. For many other types of transactions, even waiting for at least one transaction but not expecting that for 24 hours from now is fine and impacts nothing. My hope is the effective minimum of 1 sat/byte will be decreased because right now it's 9 cents to send the median sized 224 byte transaction and if btc doubles again to $80k USD then the minimum fee doubles to 18 cents without anything changing, that's like an extra pack of ramen. Well it's still not that bad, especially since it's not amount-dependent; my whole state recently mandated grocery stores start charging 8 cents per plastic bag when they used to be free, many people are just personally tanking it and still throwing them out, but everyone would rather pay no fees if they could.