5 ms·

The problem I run into with a lot of these is that their screens aren’t great. 1080p@60Hz and usually pretty terrible brightness makes them a bad fit for me as

The problem I run into with a lot of these is that their screens aren’t great. 1080p@60Hz and usually pretty terrible brightness makes them a bad fit for me as a travel companion, or even just working from my garden. It’s also annoying that some keep insisting on a barrel connector for charging instead of leveraging the USB-C port. As much as I appreciate the privacy and freedom enhancing aspects of some of these devices, ultimately a device that’s more practical for me in day to day usage wins out. That generally leaves me with a more established manufacturer. Lenovo Thinkpad and Ideapad have options in this area and run Linux just fine. Dell XPSes are good too, though I wish they’d offer an AMD option. HP Envy/Spectre devices are rather decent too, though getting the touchscreen and sensors to work on these can be fiddly because HP compensates for their broken BIOS through the Windows drivers instead of just fixing shit.

Avalaxy 4y ago
> Dell XPSes are good too Be very careful. They are very good laptops, and Dell's customer support for businesses is stellar, but the XPS machines play VERY bad with Linux. There are some XPS machines that are shipped with linux, so they should be fine. But most of them have wifi/bluetooth chips that have no support at all, or very bad support.
- daenney 4y ago
  I’ve owned two generations of them and exclusively run Linux on them (I think the 2016 and 2018 releases). One of them was a Developer Edition from work, but the other one was a generic store bought. Never had any issues with WiFi or Bluetooth. I’ve always run distributions with kernel releases that aren’t months or years behind upstream, which might have helped as far as hardware support goes.
- pizza234 4y ago
  Dell XPS has a Linux-specific line, called "Developer edition", which is intended to be Linux-compatible (it can be indeed be configured with Ubuntu on purchase). Their compatibility is not as good as they say (it needs a couple of tweaks, one of which is crucial, otherwise the machine eats batteries while on standby), but it's still decent. Definitely not "VERY bad".
  - plainnoodles 4y ago
    I have an XPS 13 9310. What's this crucial tweak? I've been running it on a vanilla Arch install for about a year and haven't noticed much battery drain on standby (maybe a few % per day left sleeping?)
    - pizza234 4y ago
      The bug is this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1808957 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1808957. Battery draining overnight - yikes! It's possible that Arch ships with the workaround/fix by default.
- mrslave 4y ago
  XPS 13 usually has good Linux compatibility. But XPS with 15" screen can be a bit of trouble to get all the hardware working under Linux.
- sirwitti 4y ago
  Having used 2 XPS13 (9343 and 9370) as my daily driver for years, this is simply not true in my experience. On my 9343 bluetooth did not work initially, and on the 9370 the fingerprint reader is not available (no driver available), but apart from that linux is just working - and I'm not particular fond of spending time on setting things up. Much more of an issue is that the xps, as every non apple computer does not support s3 sleep anymore. So just closing the lid and putting it in a bag can lead to overheating and battery drain. Honestly I don't get, why we can't have decent power management unless you buy a mac.
  - Avalaxy 4y ago
    > Having used 2 XPS13 (9343 and 9370) as my daily driver for years, this is simply not true in my experience. That's good to hear for you, but I'm not just making this up. I have the XPS 13 9310 which mostly comes with the AX500 chip for wifi and bluetooth. - For about half a year it had NO support in Ubuntu (non-existent drivers) - Then it finally got drivers, but it was extremely unstable. After an automatic update from ubuntu, the wifi no longer worked and it took several weeks for it to be fixed. - The bluetooth VERY often won't turn on after a reboot, requiring me to reboot about 5 times before it finally works. - Same for wifi, even on the latest drivers it often can't find any networks. - Some networks can't be found by the linux drivers. No problems at all under windows, with the same laptop. - Crashes or freezes of the whole OS as a result of these drivers. There's probably a ton more issues that I'm forgetting...
    - uberduper 4y ago
      I have a 9310 32gb model with the ax500. With a 5.17 kernel and the WLAN.HST.1.0.1-05266-QCAHSTSWPLZ_V2_TO_X86-1 ath11k firmware, the machine has been flawless. Well maybe not the fingerprint reader.. i installed some updates and that broke but I never really used it so I haven't bothered trying to fix it. Oh and make sure you configure the nvme to AHCI in the bios. The intel raid stuff is trash and causes major battery / suspend issues in my experience. https://github.com/kvalo/ath11k-firmware/tree/master/QCA6390 https://github.com/kvalo/ath11k-firmware/tree/master/QCA6390
    - 4y ago
- tome 4y ago
  In case anyone is interested, I have had good results with Linux on a specific Dell XPS machine: http://h2.jaguarpaw.co.uk/posts/how-i-use-debian-dell-xps-13-7390/ http://h2.jaguarpaw.co.uk/posts/how-i-use-debian-dell-xps-13...
microtonal 4y ago
Dell XPSes are good too Unless you plan to put them into a bag or backpack suspended: With regards to transporting your laptop in a bag or backpack, safety should be your primary concern. You should always turn the laptop OFF [...] Under no circumstances should you leave a laptop powered on and in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag, backpack, or in an overhead bin. The laptop will overheat as a result of that action. https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/FAQ-Modern-Standby/td-p/7514448 https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/FAQ-Modern-Standby/td-p/7...
- FormFollowsFunc 4y ago
  It’s a problem with Windows. I’ve a dual boot MacBook Pro and I run into that issue only when I put the laptop to sleep when running Windows. I don’t have the issue when running MacOS. You would think after 30 years Microsoft would figure out how to keep a computer asleep.
  - fortran77 4y ago
    If you run it on supported hardware it works just fine. The Macbook Pro is simply not open enough for Windows or Linux to support it.
- noisem4ker 4y ago
  Past, informative discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28639952&p=2 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28639952&p=2
- weberer 4y ago
  There's a BIOS setting you have to change in a lot of laptops nowadays. The default, power hungry sleep mode is usually labeled "S1" or "Windows modern standby". True sleep mode is often labeled "S3" or "Linux", confusingly enough.
  - microtonal 4y ago
    If it's an AMD laptop or older Intel. Intel has deprecated/removed S3 support in Tiger Lake-U: https://www.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/k0fm7z/system76_lemur_pro_order_notification/ https://www.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/k0fm7z/system76_l...
drusepth 4y ago
One small note on the screen (especially wrt travel and/or OP's requirement for a good battery life): "worse" screens will often give significantly better battery life. I downgraded my 4K/60 to a 1080/60 on purpose and tripled my battery life on otherwise-identical specs (3 to 9 hours on two Razer Blade Stealth models). Great points, though. Especially brightness -- even if you don't need all those nits for day-to-day use, they're great to have as an option when you do! Don't skimp on the screen specs that matter to you.

Avalaxy 4y ago

> Dell XPSes are good too Be very careful. They are very good laptops, and Dell's customer support for businesses is stellar, but the XPS machines play VERY bad with Linux. There are some XPS machines that are shipped with linux, so they should be fine. But most of them have wifi/bluetooth chips that have no support at all, or very bad support.

daenney 4y ago
I’ve owned two generations of them and exclusively run Linux on them (I think the 2016 and 2018 releases). One of them was a Developer Edition from work, but the other one was a generic store bought. Never had any issues with WiFi or Bluetooth. I’ve always run distributions with kernel releases that aren’t months or years behind upstream, which might have helped as far as hardware support goes.
pizza234 4y ago
Dell XPS has a Linux-specific line, called "Developer edition", which is intended to be Linux-compatible (it can be indeed be configured with Ubuntu on purchase). Their compatibility is not as good as they say (it needs a couple of tweaks, one of which is crucial, otherwise the machine eats batteries while on standby), but it's still decent. Definitely not "VERY bad".
- plainnoodles 4y ago
  I have an XPS 13 9310. What's this crucial tweak? I've been running it on a vanilla Arch install for about a year and haven't noticed much battery drain on standby (maybe a few % per day left sleeping?)
  - pizza234 4y ago
    The bug is this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1808957 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1808957. Battery draining overnight - yikes! It's possible that Arch ships with the workaround/fix by default.
mrslave 4y ago
XPS 13 usually has good Linux compatibility. But XPS with 15" screen can be a bit of trouble to get all the hardware working under Linux.
sirwitti 4y ago
Having used 2 XPS13 (9343 and 9370) as my daily driver for years, this is simply not true in my experience. On my 9343 bluetooth did not work initially, and on the 9370 the fingerprint reader is not available (no driver available), but apart from that linux is just working - and I'm not particular fond of spending time on setting things up. Much more of an issue is that the xps, as every non apple computer does not support s3 sleep anymore. So just closing the lid and putting it in a bag can lead to overheating and battery drain. Honestly I don't get, why we can't have decent power management unless you buy a mac.
- Avalaxy 4y ago
  > Having used 2 XPS13 (9343 and 9370) as my daily driver for years, this is simply not true in my experience. That's good to hear for you, but I'm not just making this up. I have the XPS 13 9310 which mostly comes with the AX500 chip for wifi and bluetooth. - For about half a year it had NO support in Ubuntu (non-existent drivers) - Then it finally got drivers, but it was extremely unstable. After an automatic update from ubuntu, the wifi no longer worked and it took several weeks for it to be fixed. - The bluetooth VERY often won't turn on after a reboot, requiring me to reboot about 5 times before it finally works. - Same for wifi, even on the latest drivers it often can't find any networks. - Some networks can't be found by the linux drivers. No problems at all under windows, with the same laptop. - Crashes or freezes of the whole OS as a result of these drivers. There's probably a ton more issues that I'm forgetting...
  - uberduper 4y ago
    I have a 9310 32gb model with the ax500. With a 5.17 kernel and the WLAN.HST.1.0.1-05266-QCAHSTSWPLZ_V2_TO_X86-1 ath11k firmware, the machine has been flawless. Well maybe not the fingerprint reader.. i installed some updates and that broke but I never really used it so I haven't bothered trying to fix it. Oh and make sure you configure the nvme to AHCI in the bios. The intel raid stuff is trash and causes major battery / suspend issues in my experience. https://github.com/kvalo/ath11k-firmware/tree/master/QCA6390 https://github.com/kvalo/ath11k-firmware/tree/master/QCA6390
  - 4y ago
tome 4y ago
In case anyone is interested, I have had good results with Linux on a specific Dell XPS machine: http://h2.jaguarpaw.co.uk/posts/how-i-use-debian-dell-xps-13-7390/ http://h2.jaguarpaw.co.uk/posts/how-i-use-debian-dell-xps-13...

microtonal 4y ago

Dell XPSes are good too Unless you plan to put them into a bag or backpack suspended: With regards to transporting your laptop in a bag or backpack, safety should be your primary concern. You should always turn the laptop OFF [...] Under no circumstances should you leave a laptop powered on and in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag, backpack, or in an overhead bin. The laptop will overheat as a result of that action. https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/FAQ-Modern-Standby/td-p/7514448 https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/FAQ-Modern-Standby/td-p/7...

FormFollowsFunc 4y ago
It’s a problem with Windows. I’ve a dual boot MacBook Pro and I run into that issue only when I put the laptop to sleep when running Windows. I don’t have the issue when running MacOS. You would think after 30 years Microsoft would figure out how to keep a computer asleep.
- fortran77 4y ago
  If you run it on supported hardware it works just fine. The Macbook Pro is simply not open enough for Windows or Linux to support it.
noisem4ker 4y ago
Past, informative discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28639952&p=2 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28639952&p=2
weberer 4y ago
There's a BIOS setting you have to change in a lot of laptops nowadays. The default, power hungry sleep mode is usually labeled "S1" or "Windows modern standby". True sleep mode is often labeled "S3" or "Linux", confusingly enough.
- microtonal 4y ago
  If it's an AMD laptop or older Intel. Intel has deprecated/removed S3 support in Tiger Lake-U: https://www.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/k0fm7z/system76_lemur_pro_order_notification/ https://www.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/k0fm7z/system76_l...

drusepth 4y ago

One small note on the screen (especially wrt travel and/or OP's requirement for a good battery life): "worse" screens will often give significantly better battery life. I downgraded my 4K/60 to a 1080/60 on purpose and tripled my battery life on otherwise-identical specs (3 to 9 hours on two Razer Blade Stealth models). Great points, though. Especially brightness -- even if you don't need all those nits for day-to-day use, they're great to have as an option when you do! Don't skimp on the screen specs that matter to you.