3 ms·

This was before 2015, no? It’s kind of meaningless to worry about things that used to happen years ago in a country that’s modernizing so fast. > There are lo

by rosndo 4y ago

This was before 2015, no? It’s kind of meaningless to worry about things that used to happen years ago in a country that’s modernizing so fast. > There are lots of cases of guys being thrown in jail and being fined for something as simple as long hair or wearing earrings Even straight up crossdressing in public hasn’t been illegal since Nov 2020.

klyrs 4y ago
That was in 2019.
- rosndo 4y ago
  I follow tens of Emirates staff on my instagram and it’s really hard to square this with all the profiles of openly gay Dubai residents I know. Was your friend perhaps a local? The rules are unfortunately different depending on where you come from.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    > The rules are unfortunately different depending on where you come from. does not square with > It’s kind of meaningless to worry about things that used to happen years ago in a country that’s modernizing so fast. Not needing to worry about this is a privilege that I wouldn't enjoy. Glad to hear this isn't a problem on your Instagram, but that's damned thin evidence for me to risk my life for.
    - rosndo 4y ago
      It’s also not a problem for luxury hotels openly hosting gay clubs on premises. What exactly would be sufficient evidence?
      - klyrs 4y ago
        > What exactly would be sufficient evidence? You know, after such a long (and recent!) history of violent and targeted oppression, that's a really tough question. Do you understand that? To start with, maybe another 5 years without any shit like what happened to my friend before I'd even consider it? So, there isn't precisely a threshold on "sufficient evidence" -- I'd be looking for a complete lack of evidence. Luxury hotels can afford to bribe cops and judges. The organization is safe (as in, the organization won't get in trouble). But, I don't particularly care for gay clubs. What happens if I stray outside of an unmarked tourist zone, maybe pop over to a random market and a cop doesn't like the look of me? Moreover, what if a random citizen doesn't like the look of me? Sadly, a few of my friends (not Instagram friends, actual people that I see IRL) have been physically assaulted for being gay or trans in Canada for fuck's sake, rural and urban; one is paralyzed below the neck because he got stabbed for being gay. Safety isn't just about laws, it's also about policing (which doesn't always follow the law, and good luck challenging anything as a non-citizen), it's also about culture. But now you've got me curious. Why are you so invested in convincing me that it's A-okay to visit a place that is notorious for its mistreatment of a specific population that I belong to? I'm not about to try to convince some Sikhs that rural USA is safe, right?
        jacquesm 4y ago
        Besides, those laws are typically selectively enforced precisely because they can, they're ideal for the purpose. Don't like someone, tough. Don't like someone and their gay? Nailed and no recourse because ahhh gay person. I think your five years sounds about right, if I were in that position I might add another five or just simply never spend a minute longer in a place like that than I had to.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        their -> they're
        rosndo 4y ago
        > Sadly, a few of my friends (not Instagram friends, actual people that I see IRL) have been physically assaulted for being gay or trans in Canada for fuck's sake, rural and urban; one is paralyzed below the neck because he got stabbed for being gay. The people who I follow on Instagram that are openly gay on their profiles are also real people I have met many times in the UAE. These aren’t instagram friends, their profiles were just relevant in response to you bringing up social media profiles. UAE is probably one of the least likely places in the world where you might be assaulted for being gay or trans. The government cares about optics more than anything, and would come down hard on anyone doing something like that. > What happens if I stray outside of an unmarked tourist zone, maybe pop over to a random market and a cop doesn't like the look of me? Nothing, UAE cops are nothing like Western cops. They’re paid very well and would rather avoid creating unnecessary trouble in their lives. If you’re white, it’s extraordinarily unlikely that you’d end up having a negative interaction with UAE law enforcement unless you go out of your way to make powerful enemies. I’m not saying UAE is great, I’m not saying it’s not a terribly corrupt place that can turn incredibly nasty sometimes. I’m just saying it’s a perfectly safe place for gay westerners.

by rosndo 4y ago

klyrs 4y ago

That was in 2019.

rosndo 4y ago
I follow tens of Emirates staff on my instagram and it’s really hard to square this with all the profiles of openly gay Dubai residents I know. Was your friend perhaps a local? The rules are unfortunately different depending on where you come from.
- klyrs 4y ago
  > The rules are unfortunately different depending on where you come from. does not square with > It’s kind of meaningless to worry about things that used to happen years ago in a country that’s modernizing so fast. Not needing to worry about this is a privilege that I wouldn't enjoy. Glad to hear this isn't a problem on your Instagram, but that's damned thin evidence for me to risk my life for.
  - rosndo 4y ago
    It’s also not a problem for luxury hotels openly hosting gay clubs on premises. What exactly would be sufficient evidence?
    - klyrs 4y ago
      > What exactly would be sufficient evidence? You know, after such a long (and recent!) history of violent and targeted oppression, that's a really tough question. Do you understand that? To start with, maybe another 5 years without any shit like what happened to my friend before I'd even consider it? So, there isn't precisely a threshold on "sufficient evidence" -- I'd be looking for a complete lack of evidence. Luxury hotels can afford to bribe cops and judges. The organization is safe (as in, the organization won't get in trouble). But, I don't particularly care for gay clubs. What happens if I stray outside of an unmarked tourist zone, maybe pop over to a random market and a cop doesn't like the look of me? Moreover, what if a random citizen doesn't like the look of me? Sadly, a few of my friends (not Instagram friends, actual people that I see IRL) have been physically assaulted for being gay or trans in Canada for fuck's sake, rural and urban; one is paralyzed below the neck because he got stabbed for being gay. Safety isn't just about laws, it's also about policing (which doesn't always follow the law, and good luck challenging anything as a non-citizen), it's also about culture. But now you've got me curious. Why are you so invested in convincing me that it's A-okay to visit a place that is notorious for its mistreatment of a specific population that I belong to? I'm not about to try to convince some Sikhs that rural USA is safe, right?
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        Besides, those laws are typically selectively enforced precisely because they can, they're ideal for the purpose. Don't like someone, tough. Don't like someone and their gay? Nailed and no recourse because ahhh gay person. I think your five years sounds about right, if I were in that position I might add another five or just simply never spend a minute longer in a place like that than I had to.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        their -> they're
      - rosndo 4y ago
        > Sadly, a few of my friends (not Instagram friends, actual people that I see IRL) have been physically assaulted for being gay or trans in Canada for fuck's sake, rural and urban; one is paralyzed below the neck because he got stabbed for being gay. The people who I follow on Instagram that are openly gay on their profiles are also real people I have met many times in the UAE. These aren’t instagram friends, their profiles were just relevant in response to you bringing up social media profiles. UAE is probably one of the least likely places in the world where you might be assaulted for being gay or trans. The government cares about optics more than anything, and would come down hard on anyone doing something like that. > What happens if I stray outside of an unmarked tourist zone, maybe pop over to a random market and a cop doesn't like the look of me? Nothing, UAE cops are nothing like Western cops. They’re paid very well and would rather avoid creating unnecessary trouble in their lives. If you’re white, it’s extraordinarily unlikely that you’d end up having a negative interaction with UAE law enforcement unless you go out of your way to make powerful enemies. I’m not saying UAE is great, I’m not saying it’s not a terribly corrupt place that can turn incredibly nasty sometimes. I’m just saying it’s a perfectly safe place for gay westerners.