5 ms·

Nope. A friend of mine was thrown in jail and tortured for about a week over a facebook photo of her and her girlfriend looking at eachother and smiling -- wit

by klyrs 5y ago

Nope. A friend of mine was thrown in jail and tortured for about a week over a facebook photo of her and her girlfriend looking at eachother and smiling -- with a comment from a friend that said "you two look so cute!" She endured about a week and a half of starvation, sleep deprivation, and being yelled at and sexually harrassed by guards at random intervals before her trial, trying to elicit a confession that she's gay. She lucked out: her cousin was a judge, who managed to take over the case, and dismissed it. She fled the country, thankfully. There are lots of cases of guys being thrown in jail and being fined for something as simple as long hair or wearing earrings. Not sex. Not "spreading ideology". I'm not just gay, my facebook page also has a picture of me and my partner, and my relationship status, "married," is public. And I'm locked out of facebook forever, so I can't even update any of that. Given the experience of my friend and of dozens of cases that I've read about, no, people don't just get jailed for sex or speech. It goes way beyond that.

rosndo 5y ago
This was before 2015, no? It’s kind of meaningless to worry about things that used to happen years ago in a country that’s modernizing so fast. > There are lots of cases of guys being thrown in jail and being fined for something as simple as long hair or wearing earrings Even straight up crossdressing in public hasn’t been illegal since Nov 2020.
- klyrs 5y ago
  That was in 2019.
  - rosndo 5y ago
    I follow tens of Emirates staff on my instagram and it’s really hard to square this with all the profiles of openly gay Dubai residents I know. Was your friend perhaps a local? The rules are unfortunately different depending on where you come from.
    - klyrs 5y ago
      > The rules are unfortunately different depending on where you come from. does not square with > It’s kind of meaningless to worry about things that used to happen years ago in a country that’s modernizing so fast. Not needing to worry about this is a privilege that I wouldn't enjoy. Glad to hear this isn't a problem on your Instagram, but that's damned thin evidence for me to risk my life for.
      - rosndo 5y ago
        It’s also not a problem for luxury hotels openly hosting gay clubs on premises. What exactly would be sufficient evidence?
        klyrs 5y ago
        > What exactly would be sufficient evidence? You know, after such a long (and recent!) history of violent and targeted oppression, that's a really tough question. Do you understand that? To start with, maybe another 5 years without any shit like what happened to my friend before I'd even consider it? So, there isn't precisely a threshold on "sufficient evidence" -- I'd be looking for a complete lack of evidence. Luxury hotels can afford to bribe cops and judges. The organization is safe (as in, the organization won't get in trouble). But, I don't particularly care for gay clubs. What happens if I stray outside of an unmarked tourist zone, maybe pop over to a random market and a cop doesn't like the look of me? Moreover, what if a random citizen doesn't like the look of me? Sadly, a few of my friends (not Instagram friends, actual people that I see IRL) have been physically assaulted for being gay or trans in Canada for fuck's sake, rural and urban; one is paralyzed below the neck because he got stabbed for being gay. Safety isn't just about laws, it's also about policing (which doesn't always follow the law, and good luck challenging anything as a non-citizen), it's also about culture. But now you've got me curious. Why are you so invested in convincing me that it's A-okay to visit a place that is notorious for its mistreatment of a specific population that I belong to? I'm not about to try to convince some Sikhs that rural USA is safe, right?
        5y ago
azth 5y ago
Maybe, maybe not, we don't know the entire story. We don't agree with torture obviously, but at the same time, if that story is true, it may fall under publicizing homosexuality which I mentioned in my post, and the law is the law. > simple as long hair Depends on what this long hair is. Many bedouins have long hair for example, and it's perfectly fine. > wearing earrings. Earrings are for women. Effemination of men is not allowed. > Not sex. Not "spreading ideology" Those two examples can fall under spreading ideology (context dependent for the long hair obviously).

by klyrs 5y ago

rosndo 5y ago

This was before 2015, no? It’s kind of meaningless to worry about things that used to happen years ago in a country that’s modernizing so fast. > There are lots of cases of guys being thrown in jail and being fined for something as simple as long hair or wearing earrings Even straight up crossdressing in public hasn’t been illegal since Nov 2020.

klyrs 5y ago
That was in 2019.
- rosndo 5y ago
  I follow tens of Emirates staff on my instagram and it’s really hard to square this with all the profiles of openly gay Dubai residents I know. Was your friend perhaps a local? The rules are unfortunately different depending on where you come from.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    > The rules are unfortunately different depending on where you come from. does not square with > It’s kind of meaningless to worry about things that used to happen years ago in a country that’s modernizing so fast. Not needing to worry about this is a privilege that I wouldn't enjoy. Glad to hear this isn't a problem on your Instagram, but that's damned thin evidence for me to risk my life for.
    - rosndo 5y ago
      It’s also not a problem for luxury hotels openly hosting gay clubs on premises. What exactly would be sufficient evidence?
      - klyrs 5y ago
        > What exactly would be sufficient evidence? You know, after such a long (and recent!) history of violent and targeted oppression, that's a really tough question. Do you understand that? To start with, maybe another 5 years without any shit like what happened to my friend before I'd even consider it? So, there isn't precisely a threshold on "sufficient evidence" -- I'd be looking for a complete lack of evidence. Luxury hotels can afford to bribe cops and judges. The organization is safe (as in, the organization won't get in trouble). But, I don't particularly care for gay clubs. What happens if I stray outside of an unmarked tourist zone, maybe pop over to a random market and a cop doesn't like the look of me? Moreover, what if a random citizen doesn't like the look of me? Sadly, a few of my friends (not Instagram friends, actual people that I see IRL) have been physically assaulted for being gay or trans in Canada for fuck's sake, rural and urban; one is paralyzed below the neck because he got stabbed for being gay. Safety isn't just about laws, it's also about policing (which doesn't always follow the law, and good luck challenging anything as a non-citizen), it's also about culture. But now you've got me curious. Why are you so invested in convincing me that it's A-okay to visit a place that is notorious for its mistreatment of a specific population that I belong to? I'm not about to try to convince some Sikhs that rural USA is safe, right?
        5y ago

azth 5y ago

Maybe, maybe not, we don't know the entire story. We don't agree with torture obviously, but at the same time, if that story is true, it may fall under publicizing homosexuality which I mentioned in my post, and the law is the law. > simple as long hair Depends on what this long hair is. Many bedouins have long hair for example, and it's perfectly fine. > wearing earrings. Earrings are for women. Effemination of men is not allowed. > Not sex. Not "spreading ideology" Those two examples can fall under spreading ideology (context dependent for the long hair obviously).