3 ms·

I would love to see veteran status on here. If you could delineate between officer and enlisted as well as campaign badge status, that'd be very revealing. I've

by kodah 5y ago

I would love to see veteran status on here. If you could delineate between officer and enlisted as well as campaign badge status, that'd be very revealing. I've had a tough time getting any of these stats out of my employers and we're frequently left off of DEI boards.

smt88 5y ago
What would that tell you about a company, though?
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  Is this a hostile environment for former military personnel? If you were former military personnel that might be of interest. If you're of that segment of the left that hates the military you might be looking for companies with unusually low levels for its industry of former military personnel as a sign the company would be congenial.
  - _ktx2 5y ago
    I'm mainly interested in meeting people who I share a background with, especially campaign vets. Everything changed when I got out and my life, although somewhat metaphorically in the same place as my peers, is vastly different. It's nice to talk about stress, learning, pay/finances, dealing with hierarchy, vet issues, etc with someone who can contribute a bit more than nods and sympathy. The military keeps a lot of stats about post-service folks that they show you before you get out. One is that most veterans end up in blue collar fields, which is curious by itself given how technical many jobs are (the direct skills don't translate but the mindset does). The second is the graduation rate, which is generally why I encourage companies to hire SWEs without degrees (this also has overlap with other DEI goals). I don't worry about libertarians or the far left too much. Usually those folks warm up after a while once they realize you're not Baba Yaga.
  - smt88 5y ago
    The problem is that only a small percentage of Americans are veterans in the first place, and an even smaller percentage are going to be qualified for certain industries. So if you're looking at, say, a 300-person software company, it's very possible they support veterans, want to hire veterans, and have 0 veterans on staff. (There's also a huge difference between opposing military conflicts and supporting veterans, which is evident in the equal support for the VA among Democratic and Republican voters[1]). 1. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/04/05/the-changing-face-of-americas-veteran-population/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/04/05/the-changin...
    - kodah 5y ago
      > So if you're looking at, say, a 300-person software company, it's very possible they support veterans, want to hire veterans, and have 0 veterans on staff. We're a little less than 10% of the population, that aligns with other protected classes. If you have no veterans that signals you have some issues. Having few is to be expected, but still not "good" imo. > There's also a huge difference between opposing military conflicts and supporting veterans, which is evident in the equal support for the VA among Democratic and Republican voters There is, but pay attention to how those folks speak. A lot of their attitudes about the MIC will usually leak to veterans, veteran issues, and policies that would affect us. It's treading a very close line. One good start would be to include that in unconscious bias training, but you actually need veterans at a company in the first place to necessitate that.
      - smt88 5y ago
        Currently the only protected classes people demand to see at a company are women (far larger share of Americans than veterans) and Black people (about 2x the number of veterans). Veterans are also people who are more likely to end up in certain industries, unlike (say) a Black person. You'd expect a lot of veterans in military, law enforcement, and government. How many does that leave for the rest of us to hire? And how many are getting the degrees necessary for certain fields, like nursing or civil engineering? I don't agree that 0 veterans (up to a point) says something about a company until you can show that they had a pool of qualified applicants and chose not to hire any. I would say the same about racial bias, too, by the way. A company with no Black people isn't confirmed racist until you know their applicant demographics.

by kodah 5y ago

smt88 5y ago

What would that tell you about a company, though?

barry-cotter 5y ago
Is this a hostile environment for former military personnel? If you were former military personnel that might be of interest. If you're of that segment of the left that hates the military you might be looking for companies with unusually low levels for its industry of former military personnel as a sign the company would be congenial.
- _ktx2 5y ago
  I'm mainly interested in meeting people who I share a background with, especially campaign vets. Everything changed when I got out and my life, although somewhat metaphorically in the same place as my peers, is vastly different. It's nice to talk about stress, learning, pay/finances, dealing with hierarchy, vet issues, etc with someone who can contribute a bit more than nods and sympathy. The military keeps a lot of stats about post-service folks that they show you before you get out. One is that most veterans end up in blue collar fields, which is curious by itself given how technical many jobs are (the direct skills don't translate but the mindset does). The second is the graduation rate, which is generally why I encourage companies to hire SWEs without degrees (this also has overlap with other DEI goals). I don't worry about libertarians or the far left too much. Usually those folks warm up after a while once they realize you're not Baba Yaga.
- smt88 5y ago
  The problem is that only a small percentage of Americans are veterans in the first place, and an even smaller percentage are going to be qualified for certain industries. So if you're looking at, say, a 300-person software company, it's very possible they support veterans, want to hire veterans, and have 0 veterans on staff. (There's also a huge difference between opposing military conflicts and supporting veterans, which is evident in the equal support for the VA among Democratic and Republican voters[1]). 1. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/04/05/the-changing-face-of-americas-veteran-population/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/04/05/the-changin...
  - kodah 5y ago
    > So if you're looking at, say, a 300-person software company, it's very possible they support veterans, want to hire veterans, and have 0 veterans on staff. We're a little less than 10% of the population, that aligns with other protected classes. If you have no veterans that signals you have some issues. Having few is to be expected, but still not "good" imo. > There's also a huge difference between opposing military conflicts and supporting veterans, which is evident in the equal support for the VA among Democratic and Republican voters There is, but pay attention to how those folks speak. A lot of their attitudes about the MIC will usually leak to veterans, veteran issues, and policies that would affect us. It's treading a very close line. One good start would be to include that in unconscious bias training, but you actually need veterans at a company in the first place to necessitate that.
    - smt88 5y ago
      Currently the only protected classes people demand to see at a company are women (far larger share of Americans than veterans) and Black people (about 2x the number of veterans). Veterans are also people who are more likely to end up in certain industries, unlike (say) a Black person. You'd expect a lot of veterans in military, law enforcement, and government. How many does that leave for the rest of us to hire? And how many are getting the degrees necessary for certain fields, like nursing or civil engineering? I don't agree that 0 veterans (up to a point) says something about a company until you can show that they had a pool of qualified applicants and chose not to hire any. I would say the same about racial bias, too, by the way. A company with no Black people isn't confirmed racist until you know their applicant demographics.