4 ms·

You don't seem to know what cancel culture refers to. It's not the celebrities you listed. It's women being deplatformed for expressing traditionally feminist p

You don't seem to know what cancel culture refers to. It's not the celebrities you listed. It's women being deplatformed for expressing traditionally feminist positions; it's students calling for biology professors to be fired because the professor teaches that the sexes are fundamentally binary in Homo sapiens.

skinnymuch 4y ago
Traditionally feminist? What could that mean? Is this actually referring to something regressive that isn’t feminist?
- rayiner 4y ago
  Traditionally feminist as in this famous portion of Planned Parenthood v. Casey: https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-744.ZO.html https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-744.ZO.html > Though abortion is conduct, it does not follow that the State is entitled to proscribe it in all instances. That is because the liberty of the woman is at stake in a sense unique to the human condition and so unique to the law. The mother who carries a child to full term is subject to anxieties, to physical constraints, to pain that only she must bear. That these sacrifices have from the beginning of the human race been endured by woman with a pride that ennobles her in the eyes of others and gives to the infant a bond of love cannot alone be grounds for the State to insist she make the sacrifice. Her suffering is too intimate and personal for the State to insist, without more, upon its own vision of the woman's role, however dominant that vision has been in the course of our history and our culture. The destiny of the woman must be shaped to a large extent on her own conception of her spiritual imperatives and her place in society. For the overwhelming majority of women in the world, feminism is still inexplicably intertwined with issues unique to women because they involve pregnancy, birth, raising children, and the vulnerability that comes from differences in physical strength compared to men, etc.
  - da39a3ee 4y ago
    I appreciate your comment and the quote. Did you mean to write "inextricably" though? (Hopefully it's clear that that is a straightforward question and not rhetorical!)
    - rayiner 4y ago
      I did.
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    If suddenly all women who got Covid (including the asymptomatic ones who never officially tested) were infertile. Would everything you said become moot since now a big chunk of the female population does not have the pregnancy and birth? Raising children relates to every one who identifies as a woman. Same with physical strength for any one who transitions which includes estrogen et al. more so vulnerability in general specifically is an issue more for people not born female.
- da39a3ee 4y ago
  What I mean by "traditionally feminist" is the view that feminism concerns the challenges faced by biological women as a result of physical differences from men, the fact that they give birth, and the millenia of abuse of women by men in human history for domestic work and sexual purposes. I.e. to be explicit, that feminism is not about the challenges faced by biological males who are attempting to change their bodies to be female and to live their lives as women. This is not to say that the challenges faced by transwomen are at all to be dismissed or treated unsympathetically; just that it is a distinct issue from traditional feminism. Your question is also answered rather more eloquently by rayiner in the sibling comment.
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    I’ll mostly repeat what I responded to the sibling. If all biological females who got Covid (including the asymptomatic ones who never officially tested) became infertile. Or let’s just say 30-40% of biological females became infertile. Does this make “traditional feminism” moot? The primary differences that are exclusive to biological females would not be true for so many of them then. If so, that’s cool. Sometimes these talking points are obfuscation to gatekeep and discriminate. However if traditional feminism really would segment out infertile women to some degree like women who transitioned, then that’s cool :)
    - evandale 4y ago
      I never understand this question being used as a gotcha. Yes a sterile woman is a woman. Pregnancy and birth are just examples demonstrating womenhood. There's also lots of other things: XX chromosome, menstruation, bone structure, physical strength, and emotional intelligence just to name a few.
      - skinnymuch 4y ago
        Emotional intelligence? In what way? Are there studies that are able to exclude societal effects that demonstrate these differences? Physical strength, menstruation, and others can all happen for a transitioned person as well.

skinnymuch 4y ago

Traditionally feminist? What could that mean? Is this actually referring to something regressive that isn’t feminist?

rayiner 4y ago
Traditionally feminist as in this famous portion of Planned Parenthood v. Casey: https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-744.ZO.html https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-744.ZO.html > Though abortion is conduct, it does not follow that the State is entitled to proscribe it in all instances. That is because the liberty of the woman is at stake in a sense unique to the human condition and so unique to the law. The mother who carries a child to full term is subject to anxieties, to physical constraints, to pain that only she must bear. That these sacrifices have from the beginning of the human race been endured by woman with a pride that ennobles her in the eyes of others and gives to the infant a bond of love cannot alone be grounds for the State to insist she make the sacrifice. Her suffering is too intimate and personal for the State to insist, without more, upon its own vision of the woman's role, however dominant that vision has been in the course of our history and our culture. The destiny of the woman must be shaped to a large extent on her own conception of her spiritual imperatives and her place in society. For the overwhelming majority of women in the world, feminism is still inexplicably intertwined with issues unique to women because they involve pregnancy, birth, raising children, and the vulnerability that comes from differences in physical strength compared to men, etc.
- da39a3ee 4y ago
  I appreciate your comment and the quote. Did you mean to write "inextricably" though? (Hopefully it's clear that that is a straightforward question and not rhetorical!)
  - rayiner 4y ago
    I did.
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  If suddenly all women who got Covid (including the asymptomatic ones who never officially tested) were infertile. Would everything you said become moot since now a big chunk of the female population does not have the pregnancy and birth? Raising children relates to every one who identifies as a woman. Same with physical strength for any one who transitions which includes estrogen et al. more so vulnerability in general specifically is an issue more for people not born female.
da39a3ee 4y ago
What I mean by "traditionally feminist" is the view that feminism concerns the challenges faced by biological women as a result of physical differences from men, the fact that they give birth, and the millenia of abuse of women by men in human history for domestic work and sexual purposes. I.e. to be explicit, that feminism is not about the challenges faced by biological males who are attempting to change their bodies to be female and to live their lives as women. This is not to say that the challenges faced by transwomen are at all to be dismissed or treated unsympathetically; just that it is a distinct issue from traditional feminism. Your question is also answered rather more eloquently by rayiner in the sibling comment.
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  I’ll mostly repeat what I responded to the sibling. If all biological females who got Covid (including the asymptomatic ones who never officially tested) became infertile. Or let’s just say 30-40% of biological females became infertile. Does this make “traditional feminism” moot? The primary differences that are exclusive to biological females would not be true for so many of them then. If so, that’s cool. Sometimes these talking points are obfuscation to gatekeep and discriminate. However if traditional feminism really would segment out infertile women to some degree like women who transitioned, then that’s cool :)
  - evandale 4y ago
    I never understand this question being used as a gotcha. Yes a sterile woman is a woman. Pregnancy and birth are just examples demonstrating womenhood. There's also lots of other things: XX chromosome, menstruation, bone structure, physical strength, and emotional intelligence just to name a few.
    - skinnymuch 4y ago
      Emotional intelligence? In what way? Are there studies that are able to exclude societal effects that demonstrate these differences? Physical strength, menstruation, and others can all happen for a transitioned person as well.