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My current laptop needs to be replaced really soon, I'm hoping Framework will announce either a recent AMD Ryzen or Intel's Alder Lake. The difference between t

My current laptop needs to be replaced really soon, I'm hoping Framework will announce either a recent AMD Ryzen or Intel's Alder Lake. The difference between the 11th and 12th gen Intel is big enough I don't want to spend the next three years regretting it. Unfortunately Lenovo or Dell might get my budget if it looks like that's not going to happen for a while. This laptop has had a few too many drops off of my bike (which is why repairability would be great!).

pizza234 4y ago
> The difference between the 11th and 12th gen Intel is big enough I don't want to spend the next three years regretting it. With the Framework though, the CPU (motherboard) is intended to be replaceable. There will likely be (assuming there isn't one already) a secondary market of individual parts.
- wmf 4y ago
  Buying an obsolete laptop now and upgrading it in a few months is not a good use of money though.
  - delusional 4y ago
    It's also not a good use of the earths resources, which i think is part of the ethos of framework.
    - dymk 4y ago
      Electronic components are some of the most profitable materials to recycle. The whole "it's more green" thing is marketing fluff.
      - bogwog 4y ago
        Reduce > Reuse > Recycle Recycling is the worst of the three by far.
    - willismichael 4y ago
      Well, the framework hardware is much more likely to be used by somebody who can buy it secondhand, unlike a lot of laptops that are intentionally designed to be a pain to reuse/repair.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  When I buy a laptop with an upgrade path in mind, the hope is that I will do so in 2-3 years, not next week. Otherwise I am just spending a bunch of money on hardware that I will not actually use for very long. Alder Lake and Zen 3 have been out for a while now, so I do not think it is unreasonable to expect a brand new laptop to ship with either of them.
  - ouEight12 4y ago
    > I do not think it is unreasonable to expect a brand new laptop to ship with either of them. For a Dell, HP, or other multinational conglomerate who gets new chipsets in advance from Intel and always has a dozen or more models on the never ending merry-go-round of 'hype the new, dump last seasons at Costco on the people who don't know any better', no, it's not unreasonable. For a small batch manufacturer who's been shipping laptops less then a year and is still effectively on their first model release? All in the middle of a pandemic induced supply chain fiasco? It kind of is.
    - babypuncher 4y ago
      Maybe for Alder Lake, but Zen 3 has been around for an eternity, and is already on the cusp of being succeeded by Zen 4. Zen 3 is also so much better than 11th gen Intel that I struggle to understand why any manufacturer would have chosen Intel for their new flagship laptop in 2021.
      - yata69420 4y ago
        This is spot on. If Framework offered Zen 3 and 120hz+ display, I would absolutely buy one immediately.
        Sebb767 4y ago
        On any thread on framework, comments in the form of "I'd buy one right now if it had X" are probably the most common, for quite a few X ;-) That being said, I'm also waiting for an AMD CPU. Given that it is the most requested feature, though, I assume they'll be there in the next iteration.
idealmedtech 4y ago
Lenovo P series has great repairability! Will definitely be getting a framework next, though.
noveltyaccount 4y ago
Or for that matter, high end ARM chips :)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- geoffeg 4y ago
  Is there any manufacturer with plans to come out with an Apple Silicon-level ARM chip (in terms of performance and efficiency)? Ever since the first benchmarks for the M1 chips started appearing I've been kinda dreaming of a Raspberry-Pi style system with a high performance ARM chip.
  - ac29 4y ago
    Qualcomm, maybe. They aquired Nuvia (many ex-Apple people), who was designing such a processor.
  - wmf 4y ago
    Nvidia Orin, but they're charging a fortune for it.
    - glowingly 4y ago
      I'd want better mainline support for it. Either full mainline kernel support or something akin to it from Nvidia. My Jetsons were stuck on Ubuntu 18.04 since early 2020, with the old 4.19 kernel. They only recently beta'd a 20.04-based build with Kernel 5.10. Full release is 2022Q4. Somewhat like their "18.04" upgrade - very, very late. Sure, I could backport, try to upgrade on my own, etc. Some people have done so. Results were varied. IMO, Nvidia is comparing themselves to embedded vendors. For general compute, I'd like vendors to keep up with the Fedoras, sids, and Tumbleweeds of the world, at the very least. Not asking for arch, btw :) Hopefully Nvidia's server ambitions with Grace will see them take on general compute.
  - mappu 4y ago
    For ARM64 performance, if you don't mind a desktop instead, there's https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ADLINK-Ampere-Altra-Developer https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ADLINK-A... with a 32-core Altra A1 in it including RAM for 4000 USD. It is very reasonable when compared to a Threadripper. In terms of power efficiency you'll need to wait until Apple stops monopolizing TSMC's N5 node. Apple almost singlehandedly invented the ARM64 ISA, and bankrolled the leading-edge TSMC process, so it's probably okay for them to have the best SoC for a while as long as others have a fair chance of catching up soon.
elromulous 4y ago
This. I'm in the same boat. No way am I buying an 11th gen when 12th gen is out. Upgradability shmupgradability if I need to upgrade 6 months or so after purchase.
bodge5000 4y ago
Out of interest, do you use your laptop as your primary personal computer, or do you just have a laptop on you for portability?

pizza234 4y ago

> The difference between the 11th and 12th gen Intel is big enough I don't want to spend the next three years regretting it. With the Framework though, the CPU (motherboard) is intended to be replaceable. There will likely be (assuming there isn't one already) a secondary market of individual parts.

wmf 4y ago
Buying an obsolete laptop now and upgrading it in a few months is not a good use of money though.
- delusional 4y ago
  It's also not a good use of the earths resources, which i think is part of the ethos of framework.
  - dymk 4y ago
    Electronic components are some of the most profitable materials to recycle. The whole "it's more green" thing is marketing fluff.
    - bogwog 4y ago
      Reduce > Reuse > Recycle Recycling is the worst of the three by far.
  - willismichael 4y ago
    Well, the framework hardware is much more likely to be used by somebody who can buy it secondhand, unlike a lot of laptops that are intentionally designed to be a pain to reuse/repair.
babypuncher 4y ago
When I buy a laptop with an upgrade path in mind, the hope is that I will do so in 2-3 years, not next week. Otherwise I am just spending a bunch of money on hardware that I will not actually use for very long. Alder Lake and Zen 3 have been out for a while now, so I do not think it is unreasonable to expect a brand new laptop to ship with either of them.
- ouEight12 4y ago
  > I do not think it is unreasonable to expect a brand new laptop to ship with either of them. For a Dell, HP, or other multinational conglomerate who gets new chipsets in advance from Intel and always has a dozen or more models on the never ending merry-go-round of 'hype the new, dump last seasons at Costco on the people who don't know any better', no, it's not unreasonable. For a small batch manufacturer who's been shipping laptops less then a year and is still effectively on their first model release? All in the middle of a pandemic induced supply chain fiasco? It kind of is.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    Maybe for Alder Lake, but Zen 3 has been around for an eternity, and is already on the cusp of being succeeded by Zen 4. Zen 3 is also so much better than 11th gen Intel that I struggle to understand why any manufacturer would have chosen Intel for their new flagship laptop in 2021.
    - yata69420 4y ago
      This is spot on. If Framework offered Zen 3 and 120hz+ display, I would absolutely buy one immediately.
      - Sebb767 4y ago
        On any thread on framework, comments in the form of "I'd buy one right now if it had X" are probably the most common, for quite a few X ;-) That being said, I'm also waiting for an AMD CPU. Given that it is the most requested feature, though, I assume they'll be there in the next iteration.

idealmedtech 4y ago

Lenovo P series has great repairability! Will definitely be getting a framework next, though.

noveltyaccount 4y ago

Or for that matter, high end ARM chips :)

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
geoffeg 4y ago
Is there any manufacturer with plans to come out with an Apple Silicon-level ARM chip (in terms of performance and efficiency)? Ever since the first benchmarks for the M1 chips started appearing I've been kinda dreaming of a Raspberry-Pi style system with a high performance ARM chip.
- ac29 4y ago
  Qualcomm, maybe. They aquired Nuvia (many ex-Apple people), who was designing such a processor.
- wmf 4y ago
  Nvidia Orin, but they're charging a fortune for it.
  - glowingly 4y ago
    I'd want better mainline support for it. Either full mainline kernel support or something akin to it from Nvidia. My Jetsons were stuck on Ubuntu 18.04 since early 2020, with the old 4.19 kernel. They only recently beta'd a 20.04-based build with Kernel 5.10. Full release is 2022Q4. Somewhat like their "18.04" upgrade - very, very late. Sure, I could backport, try to upgrade on my own, etc. Some people have done so. Results were varied. IMO, Nvidia is comparing themselves to embedded vendors. For general compute, I'd like vendors to keep up with the Fedoras, sids, and Tumbleweeds of the world, at the very least. Not asking for arch, btw :) Hopefully Nvidia's server ambitions with Grace will see them take on general compute.
- mappu 4y ago
  For ARM64 performance, if you don't mind a desktop instead, there's https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ADLINK-Ampere-Altra-Developer https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ADLINK-A... with a 32-core Altra A1 in it including RAM for 4000 USD. It is very reasonable when compared to a Threadripper. In terms of power efficiency you'll need to wait until Apple stops monopolizing TSMC's N5 node. Apple almost singlehandedly invented the ARM64 ISA, and bankrolled the leading-edge TSMC process, so it's probably okay for them to have the best SoC for a while as long as others have a fair chance of catching up soon.

elromulous 4y ago

This. I'm in the same boat. No way am I buying an 11th gen when 12th gen is out. Upgradability shmupgradability if I need to upgrade 6 months or so after purchase.

bodge5000 4y ago

Out of interest, do you use your laptop as your primary personal computer, or do you just have a laptop on you for portability?