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So eBay has a 0.63% share of black males, or 20 in the entire company across all roles. Cool. This industry is absolutely brutal if you are not white or asian,

So eBay has a 0.63% share of black males, or 20 in the entire company across all roles. Cool. This industry is absolutely brutal if you are not white or asian, and that's seemingly just how it's gonna be.

theduder99 5y ago
nothing brutal about it. whats the percentage of asian females working as auto mechanics in the usa? if low, why is that?
- ramesh31 5y ago
  Yeah. Know your place and all of that. Trust me, I get it. >"nothing brutal about it. whats the percentage of asian females working as auto mechanics in the usa? if low, why is that?" Because being an auto mechanic is a brutal physical job that destroys your body and pays a barely liveable wage. Something no one really wants to do regardless of gender or race. However, being a computer programmer is one of the best jobs on earth. We are paid like lawyers and coddled like children to write text files in our underwear. Everyone across the socioeconomic spectrum wants what we have. So why do only asians and whites get it?
  - wiseowise 5y ago
    > However, being a computer programmer is one of the best jobs on earth. To you, maybe. I’m going to surprise you, but just because you find X one of the best things in life and Y is worse than X to you – it doesn’t mean that X is universally better than Y for everyone. > We are paid like lawyers and coddled like children to write text files in our underwear. Because that’s what software engineering is. Uhuh. > Everyone across the socioeconomic spectrum wants what we have. And you found that where? On ad websites for every generic bootcamp?
- danamit 5y ago
  It is a brutal reality no matter how you look at it, it means there is some kind of systematic failure, and I am not talking about the companies themselves, it is societies overall. There is less asian females doing manual labour because they can get better jobs.
rectang 5y ago
Slight note: that's 0.63% Black male for eBay professionals. Across the entire company in all roles, eBay clocks in at 1.4%. Compare against Coca Cola's professionals: > 5.82% - Black or African American Male > 13.66% - Black or African American Female > This industry is absolutely brutal if you are not white or asian, and that's seemingly just how it's gonna be. I didn't start out in tech, and I feel like I was dropped on Mars. The demographics are so wildly skewed, and there are so many people who believe that the skew is right and just. I hate it.
- jeffy90 5y ago
  To what extent do black computer science grads have worse job placement than white/asian ones? At my employer for every position we're required to interview at least one underrepresented demographic (basically female, black or latino), but recruiters are struggling to find candidates. It gives me the impression that there simply aren't many computer science grads in those demographics
  - rectang 5y ago
    For sure. U.S. Comp Sci grads are around 1/5 female right now. And you need look no further than the hostility of the tech industry for why they might want to go elsewhere. (Cue the usual "women aren't interested in computer science", which is exactly what I'm talking about.)
    - honkdaddy 5y ago
      Do you see it being equally problematic that U.S. Nursing grads are about 1/5 male right now? If not, why is it that this should matter in one industry and not the other?
      - gbear605 5y ago
        It is a problem that men in nursing are often discriminated against, both by hiring boards, their coworkers, and their patients. We’d probably have better health outcomes with a more varied population of nurses. Here on HN we talk about CS more… because we’re on a CS discussing site, and CS generally pays better than nursing, and women have historically faced more discrimination across society. But that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t also care about male underrepresentation in nursing, it’s just less relevant here.
bruceb 5y ago
One would also have to know how many people of each background applied for jobs at ebay. This goes even more for remote dev roles. A job post will get a ton of Indian applicants.
Siddarth1977 5y ago
Alternatively, given how aggressively all companies are recruiting Black candidates, they're poached from less desirable employers to more desirable employers. An average white, male employee might accept that their mid-level, unfulfilling but acceptable cubicle at eBay is as good as they're going to get and stay for years. An otherwise identical minority candidate will be getting 10 recruiter messages a day for better opportunities.
- ramesh31 5y ago
  Yeah, you're right. Being black is a huge advantage in life.
  - Siddarth1977 5y ago
    There's no need for this sort of snarky trolling. Systemic discrimination against Black Americans both historically and today is well documented and understood. I could have written a long preamble about the many elements of society that factor into racial disparities, but I assumed I could skip that for brevity since everyone on HN is already well aware. You need to look at this data with an intersectional perspective. An overly generalized label of just "Black" as an identifier does little to help and may actively mislead in certain situations. Considering multiple attributes- race, educational attainment, location, industry, job function, seniority, etc is critical because the intersection of these may cause dramatically different experiences. Consider this example to maybe make it clear. Imagine a gay man pursuing a career as a Broadway dancer versus a gay man pursuing a career as an elementary school teacher in Alabama. Will being gay have the same risks and challenges for each man? Is it fair or useful to try to group their experiences into one "score" for if that attribute is an advantage or disadvantage?

theduder99 5y ago

nothing brutal about it. whats the percentage of asian females working as auto mechanics in the usa? if low, why is that?

ramesh31 5y ago
Yeah. Know your place and all of that. Trust me, I get it. >"nothing brutal about it. whats the percentage of asian females working as auto mechanics in the usa? if low, why is that?" Because being an auto mechanic is a brutal physical job that destroys your body and pays a barely liveable wage. Something no one really wants to do regardless of gender or race. However, being a computer programmer is one of the best jobs on earth. We are paid like lawyers and coddled like children to write text files in our underwear. Everyone across the socioeconomic spectrum wants what we have. So why do only asians and whites get it?
- wiseowise 5y ago
  > However, being a computer programmer is one of the best jobs on earth. To you, maybe. I’m going to surprise you, but just because you find X one of the best things in life and Y is worse than X to you – it doesn’t mean that X is universally better than Y for everyone. > We are paid like lawyers and coddled like children to write text files in our underwear. Because that’s what software engineering is. Uhuh. > Everyone across the socioeconomic spectrum wants what we have. And you found that where? On ad websites for every generic bootcamp?
danamit 5y ago
It is a brutal reality no matter how you look at it, it means there is some kind of systematic failure, and I am not talking about the companies themselves, it is societies overall. There is less asian females doing manual labour because they can get better jobs.

rectang 5y ago

Slight note: that's 0.63% Black male for eBay professionals. Across the entire company in all roles, eBay clocks in at 1.4%. Compare against Coca Cola's professionals: > 5.82% - Black or African American Male > 13.66% - Black or African American Female > This industry is absolutely brutal if you are not white or asian, and that's seemingly just how it's gonna be. I didn't start out in tech, and I feel like I was dropped on Mars. The demographics are so wildly skewed, and there are so many people who believe that the skew is right and just. I hate it.

jeffy90 5y ago
To what extent do black computer science grads have worse job placement than white/asian ones? At my employer for every position we're required to interview at least one underrepresented demographic (basically female, black or latino), but recruiters are struggling to find candidates. It gives me the impression that there simply aren't many computer science grads in those demographics
- rectang 5y ago
  For sure. U.S. Comp Sci grads are around 1/5 female right now. And you need look no further than the hostility of the tech industry for why they might want to go elsewhere. (Cue the usual "women aren't interested in computer science", which is exactly what I'm talking about.)
  - honkdaddy 5y ago
    Do you see it being equally problematic that U.S. Nursing grads are about 1/5 male right now? If not, why is it that this should matter in one industry and not the other?
    - gbear605 5y ago
      It is a problem that men in nursing are often discriminated against, both by hiring boards, their coworkers, and their patients. We’d probably have better health outcomes with a more varied population of nurses. Here on HN we talk about CS more… because we’re on a CS discussing site, and CS generally pays better than nursing, and women have historically faced more discrimination across society. But that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t also care about male underrepresentation in nursing, it’s just less relevant here.

bruceb 5y ago

One would also have to know how many people of each background applied for jobs at ebay. This goes even more for remote dev roles. A job post will get a ton of Indian applicants.

Siddarth1977 5y ago

Alternatively, given how aggressively all companies are recruiting Black candidates, they're poached from less desirable employers to more desirable employers. An average white, male employee might accept that their mid-level, unfulfilling but acceptable cubicle at eBay is as good as they're going to get and stay for years. An otherwise identical minority candidate will be getting 10 recruiter messages a day for better opportunities.

ramesh31 5y ago
Yeah, you're right. Being black is a huge advantage in life.
- Siddarth1977 5y ago
  There's no need for this sort of snarky trolling. Systemic discrimination against Black Americans both historically and today is well documented and understood. I could have written a long preamble about the many elements of society that factor into racial disparities, but I assumed I could skip that for brevity since everyone on HN is already well aware. You need to look at this data with an intersectional perspective. An overly generalized label of just "Black" as an identifier does little to help and may actively mislead in certain situations. Considering multiple attributes- race, educational attainment, location, industry, job function, seniority, etc is critical because the intersection of these may cause dramatically different experiences. Consider this example to maybe make it clear. Imagine a gay man pursuing a career as a Broadway dancer versus a gay man pursuing a career as an elementary school teacher in Alabama. Will being gay have the same risks and challenges for each man? Is it fair or useful to try to group their experiences into one "score" for if that attribute is an advantage or disadvantage?