4 ms·

It is a suggestion, people. The same way you're allowed to missspell words as much as you want despite the little red squiggly line thing, you're welcomed to ei

It is a suggestion, people. The same way you're allowed to missspell words as much as you want despite the little red squiggly line thing, you're welcomed to either ignore or disable the little purple squiggly line thing. It's going to be okay.

tpmx 4y ago
Please don't suggest that everyone reading this is a simpleton. No, it's not going to be okay unless we make it so.
8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago
That's not how this stuff works, at all. Once something becomes an automated suggestion, see Slack bots gently suggesting you don't use a certain expression ad nauseam, it de facto becomes a standard. People start to wonder why you couldn't just follow a "commonly accepted best practice" and instead you went out of your way to insist on terminology that is now considered insensitive, hurtful, harmful. People start to wonder why you made that conscious choice. What does that say about you? Are you a bigot? Do you harbor hatred for those harmed by such language? Are you making a political statement? Why can't you just do what you're suggested? It's only a click away after all.
- nobody9999 4y ago
  >People start to wonder why you made that conscious choice. What does that say about you? Are you a bigot? Do you harbor hatred for those harmed by such language? Are you making a political statement? Why can't you just do what you're suggested? It's only a click away after all. And such folks can ask me what I meant or they can just fuck right off. Even if that means a few parting barbs from such folk or even a coordinated campaign to damage my reputation. I have no control over what other people think, do or say, other than to speak my mind as well. As Justice Brandeis put it[0] nearly a hundred years ago: If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_v._California#Quotes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_v._California#Quotes
nerdjon 4y ago
Suggestions influence people. This features right now is restricted too google docs for work. But imagine it was in all documents, emails, texting on android, etc. Overtime if you constantly get these suggestions you will likely find yourself doing differently subconsciously. The key problem here is not only is it Google dictating now what is right or wrong in the English language but also applying a US centric view on that. Many words have different meanings in different countries or even in the same country. Different societal norms and it doesn't mean it is any less inclusive. They just consider it something else. It didn't take that long for spellcheck to automatically start fixing spellings, a feature that many of us likely could no longer live without. I don't know the last time I actually interacted with spellcheck. That same thing can happen here if we allow this to be acceptable.
- chasing 4y ago
  Turn off the feature and go about your day. That's what I do with grammar checkers, anyway, for many of the reasons you just described. As far as I can tell, using the passive voice or saying "I think" too often has neither harmed me personally nor professionally.
  - theonething 4y ago
    > Turn off the feature and go about your day. I think the vast majority of users especially outside the HN/technical crowd will not do as you. Default settings are powerfully influential UX. See dark patterns.
oconnore 4y ago
I don't share or endorse this specific concern, but it's disingenuous to dismiss extrapolations like this as a category. The exercise of power is not always apparent at face value.
nullc 4y ago
Personally I think it'll be great. It'll cause people to replace perfectly reasonable text with accidentally offensive text, just to make the squiggly line go away.
3qz 4y ago
It’s a suggestion that I’m wrong. That’s true with spelling, but I have never written something like “landlord” by accident in my life. I’m not wrong!
theonething 4y ago
Your description is quite simplistic and your comparison is fallacious. The correct spelling of words is defined and agreed upon and there is no moral judgement involved. That is not the case with "inclusive language", yet by making these alternative suggestions Google is making a judgement that my word choice is wrong because it doesn't fit politically correct standards espoused and insisted upon by a vocal minority of society. An editor used by millions should auto-correct spelling not decide what words are morally correct. It doesn't take much imagination to see where this is headed. This is a slippery slope if there ever was one.

tpmx 4y ago

Please don't suggest that everyone reading this is a simpleton. No, it's not going to be okay unless we make it so.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago

That's not how this stuff works, at all. Once something becomes an automated suggestion, see Slack bots gently suggesting you don't use a certain expression ad nauseam, it de facto becomes a standard. People start to wonder why you couldn't just follow a "commonly accepted best practice" and instead you went out of your way to insist on terminology that is now considered insensitive, hurtful, harmful. People start to wonder why you made that conscious choice. What does that say about you? Are you a bigot? Do you harbor hatred for those harmed by such language? Are you making a political statement? Why can't you just do what you're suggested? It's only a click away after all.

nobody9999 4y ago
>People start to wonder why you made that conscious choice. What does that say about you? Are you a bigot? Do you harbor hatred for those harmed by such language? Are you making a political statement? Why can't you just do what you're suggested? It's only a click away after all. And such folks can ask me what I meant or they can just fuck right off. Even if that means a few parting barbs from such folk or even a coordinated campaign to damage my reputation. I have no control over what other people think, do or say, other than to speak my mind as well. As Justice Brandeis put it[0] nearly a hundred years ago: If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_v._California#Quotes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_v._California#Quotes

nerdjon 4y ago

Suggestions influence people. This features right now is restricted too google docs for work. But imagine it was in all documents, emails, texting on android, etc. Overtime if you constantly get these suggestions you will likely find yourself doing differently subconsciously. The key problem here is not only is it Google dictating now what is right or wrong in the English language but also applying a US centric view on that. Many words have different meanings in different countries or even in the same country. Different societal norms and it doesn't mean it is any less inclusive. They just consider it something else. It didn't take that long for spellcheck to automatically start fixing spellings, a feature that many of us likely could no longer live without. I don't know the last time I actually interacted with spellcheck. That same thing can happen here if we allow this to be acceptable.

chasing 4y ago
Turn off the feature and go about your day. That's what I do with grammar checkers, anyway, for many of the reasons you just described. As far as I can tell, using the passive voice or saying "I think" too often has neither harmed me personally nor professionally.
- theonething 4y ago
  > Turn off the feature and go about your day. I think the vast majority of users especially outside the HN/technical crowd will not do as you. Default settings are powerfully influential UX. See dark patterns.

oconnore 4y ago

I don't share or endorse this specific concern, but it's disingenuous to dismiss extrapolations like this as a category. The exercise of power is not always apparent at face value.

nullc 4y ago

Personally I think it'll be great. It'll cause people to replace perfectly reasonable text with accidentally offensive text, just to make the squiggly line go away.

3qz 4y ago

It’s a suggestion that I’m wrong. That’s true with spelling, but I have never written something like “landlord” by accident in my life. I’m not wrong!

theonething 4y ago

Your description is quite simplistic and your comparison is fallacious. The correct spelling of words is defined and agreed upon and there is no moral judgement involved. That is not the case with "inclusive language", yet by making these alternative suggestions Google is making a judgement that my word choice is wrong because it doesn't fit politically correct standards espoused and insisted upon by a vocal minority of society. An editor used by millions should auto-correct spelling not decide what words are morally correct. It doesn't take much imagination to see where this is headed. This is a slippery slope if there ever was one.