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The problem is that this private company has a list of words that they decided was inappropriate. By highlighting these words in their monopolistic product (Goo

by cft 4y ago

The problem is that this private company has a list of words that they decided was inappropriate. By highlighting these words in their monopolistic product (Google Docs), they are influencing discourse and shaping opinion and implicitly educating children that use the docs, by providing them with their opinionated advice and suggestions for replacement.

skybrian 4y ago
It seems like "monopolistic" is the load-bearing word here, and it doesn't apply for writing tools. People write in lots of different editors.
- cft 4y ago
  I suppose "lots" mean more than one or two. Can you provide a list of cloud-based shareable free office suits?
  - InitialLastName 4y ago
    I'm not going to do it, but Wikipedia's got you covered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_office_suites#Online_(web-based)_office_suites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_office_suites#Online_(...
  - bobsomers 4y ago
    > Can you provide a list of cloud-based shareable free office suits? You've moved the goal posts to narrow the focus onto Google Docs, though. When my grandma wants to write a letter, she doesn't go searching for a "cloud-based shareable free office suite". She launches whatever is already installed on her computer.
  - shakezula 4y ago
    If you're going to argue Google Docs is a monopoly, the burden of proof is on _you_ to provide the evidence.
naoqj 4y ago
Like when you googled "american inventors" and you only got black ones.
- HL33tibCe7 4y ago
  Couldn’t this be explained by the fact that the phrase “African American inventors” is used a lot?
  - zmgsabst 4y ago
    Why would that phrase be used more than “American inventors”, such that it accounts for all the images?
    - dfxm12 4y ago
      It could have been February, and kids could have been using Google to help research their homework, just for one example.
- shakezula 4y ago
  What's wrong with getting Black inventors in your search results?
shakezula 4y ago
> implicitly educating children The classic "think of the children" argument. Who could possibly argue against the children? > By highlighting these words in their monopolistic product (Google Docs) Google Docs isn't a monopoly, and you're betraying your bias in your criticism by pushing that narrative.
- Minor49er 4y ago
  Monopoly, no. But Google certainly dominates education in the US: "Today, more than half the nation’s primary- and secondary-school students — more than 30 million children — use Google education apps like Gmail and Docs, the company said. And Chromebooks, Google-powered laptops that initially struggled to find a purpose, are now a powerhouse in America’s schools. Today they account for more than half the mobile devices shipped to schools." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/technology/google-education-chromebooks-schools.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/technology/google-educati...
  - shakezula 4y ago
    Again, I don’t agree they “dominate education”. That’s like saying that Bic dominates education because a huge percentage of kids write with a Bic pen or pencil every day.
    - Minor49er 4y ago
      Teachers who accept work with pen and paper will be able to accept work if non-Bic pens are used. Bic pens aren't used to drive classroom learning, collaboration, and assignment completion like Google Classroom, Gmail, or Docs. Bic pens also don't stop to correct you when you misspell a word or suggest that you use a different word when you've used one that it deems to be offensive to a hypothetical audience. I'm not sure how someone can have a notable majority in anything and not be said to be dominating that thing.
otterley 4y ago
Can you provide any concrete examples of the suggestions being provided in the document authoring context; how they are incorrect, inappropriate, or harmful; and how you might correct them? If you can demonstrate an actual problem, that would lend some weight to this argument.
- cft 4y ago
  https://twitter.com/thecitywanderer/status/1516176983549530122?t=9J68qbuUvCsJtHC6gYiKsg&s=19 https://twitter.com/thecitywanderer/status/15161769835495301...
Karawebnetwork 4y ago
Dictionaries already have such warnings in them. Look up Eskimo, Gypsy and c**n (racial slur) in most dictionaries. I have Merriam-Webster open in a tab right now, so let's check. It says "plural Eskimo or Eskimos, now sometimes offensive" (with a long explaination paragraph under), "usually offensive, see usage paragraph below" (again, with a long paragraph explaining) and "offensive —used as an insulting and contemptuous term for a Black person. Being aware of inappropriate words in not new. Dictionaries are available in schools. Should we ban them now?

by cft 4y ago

skybrian 4y ago

It seems like "monopolistic" is the load-bearing word here, and it doesn't apply for writing tools. People write in lots of different editors.

cft 4y ago
I suppose "lots" mean more than one or two. Can you provide a list of cloud-based shareable free office suits?
- InitialLastName 4y ago
  I'm not going to do it, but Wikipedia's got you covered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_office_suites#Online_(web-based)_office_suites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_office_suites#Online_(...
- bobsomers 4y ago
  > Can you provide a list of cloud-based shareable free office suits? You've moved the goal posts to narrow the focus onto Google Docs, though. When my grandma wants to write a letter, she doesn't go searching for a "cloud-based shareable free office suite". She launches whatever is already installed on her computer.
- shakezula 4y ago
  If you're going to argue Google Docs is a monopoly, the burden of proof is on _you_ to provide the evidence.

naoqj 4y ago

Like when you googled "american inventors" and you only got black ones.

HL33tibCe7 4y ago
Couldn’t this be explained by the fact that the phrase “African American inventors” is used a lot?
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  Why would that phrase be used more than “American inventors”, such that it accounts for all the images?
  - dfxm12 4y ago
    It could have been February, and kids could have been using Google to help research their homework, just for one example.
shakezula 4y ago
What's wrong with getting Black inventors in your search results?

shakezula 4y ago

> implicitly educating children The classic "think of the children" argument. Who could possibly argue against the children? > By highlighting these words in their monopolistic product (Google Docs) Google Docs isn't a monopoly, and you're betraying your bias in your criticism by pushing that narrative.

Minor49er 4y ago
Monopoly, no. But Google certainly dominates education in the US: "Today, more than half the nation’s primary- and secondary-school students — more than 30 million children — use Google education apps like Gmail and Docs, the company said. And Chromebooks, Google-powered laptops that initially struggled to find a purpose, are now a powerhouse in America’s schools. Today they account for more than half the mobile devices shipped to schools." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/technology/google-education-chromebooks-schools.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/technology/google-educati...
- shakezula 4y ago
  Again, I don’t agree they “dominate education”. That’s like saying that Bic dominates education because a huge percentage of kids write with a Bic pen or pencil every day.
  - Minor49er 4y ago
    Teachers who accept work with pen and paper will be able to accept work if non-Bic pens are used. Bic pens aren't used to drive classroom learning, collaboration, and assignment completion like Google Classroom, Gmail, or Docs. Bic pens also don't stop to correct you when you misspell a word or suggest that you use a different word when you've used one that it deems to be offensive to a hypothetical audience. I'm not sure how someone can have a notable majority in anything and not be said to be dominating that thing.

otterley 4y ago

Can you provide any concrete examples of the suggestions being provided in the document authoring context; how they are incorrect, inappropriate, or harmful; and how you might correct them? If you can demonstrate an actual problem, that would lend some weight to this argument.

cft 4y ago
https://twitter.com/thecitywanderer/status/1516176983549530122?t=9J68qbuUvCsJtHC6gYiKsg&s=19 https://twitter.com/thecitywanderer/status/15161769835495301...

Karawebnetwork 4y ago

Dictionaries already have such warnings in them. Look up Eskimo, Gypsy and c**n (racial slur) in most dictionaries. I have Merriam-Webster open in a tab right now, so let's check. It says "plural Eskimo or Eskimos, now sometimes offensive" (with a long explaination paragraph under), "usually offensive, see usage paragraph below" (again, with a long paragraph explaining) and "offensive —used as an insulting and contemptuous term for a Black person. Being aware of inappropriate words in not new. Dictionaries are available in schools. Should we ban them now?