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> Interesting, but you know what might even be better? If it could be done directly from emacs. First, Emacs should have sensible defaults like Ctrl-c for copy

> Interesting, but you know what might even be better? If it could be done directly from emacs. First, Emacs should have sensible defaults like Ctrl-c for copying and Ctrl-v for pasting. Second, there should be a menu item to choose among particular setups. A new user shouldn't have to go through the less-than-fun process of installing a bunch of stuff to get a common sense setup.

cyberbanjo 5y ago
cua-mode exists and it's been argued that it should be default.
- bachmeier 5y ago
  I'm aware. But it's not the default.
  - nocman 5y ago
    Nor should it be, in my opinion. Emacs has a loyal user base, and changing to having cua-mode as the default would likely anger most, if not all of them. I highly doubt that the number of long-term users gained by the change would be even remotely significant.
    - bachmeier 5y ago
      > I highly doubt that the number of long-term users gained by the change would be even remotely significant. This sums up well the gigantic hurdles Emacs faces as it attempts to stay relevant over the next 20 years. We're talking about a single keyboard shortcut to switch back to legacy mode.
      - natrys 5y ago
        Emacs is more widely used today than ever before. There are more high quality packages being produced by the community today than I ever remember it being the case. It's only when you stop looking at growing absolute user numbers and instead get into percentage, is when you reach a conclusion like Emacs is struggling to stay relevant. That's like saying Lamborghini is struggling to stay relevant because of Toyota or something.
      - nocman 5y ago
        And a single setting for someone to change now if they want cua-mode. My point was that making the default cua-mode won't lead to a significant number of new long-term users, so it isn't worth the hassle it would create for people who are already using it. Also, emacs is not struggling to stay relevant. I fully expect that it will appeal to an audience of users similar to the one it appeals to today for decades to come.
  - daptaq 5y ago
    This seems very unlikely, since CUA mode doesn't work perfectly, and the chance of the C-c prefix being given up for a single command is next to zero.
wtetzner 5y ago
> First, Emacs should have sensible defaults like Ctrl-c for copying and Ctrl-v for pasting. Except that would break a ton of existing commands, since ctrl-c is use as a prefix for a bunch of stuff already. You'd be making it hard for someone who already knows Emacs to use it. It shouldn't be a problem on personal machines, since you can override the defaults. But if you ssh into a server and need to use emacs, it would be problematic. Also, on macOS, cmd+c and cmd+v work be default.
- bachmeier 5y ago
  > You'd be making it hard for someone who already knows Emacs to use it. It would be a burden for a longtime user to have to enter one keyboard shortcut to move into legacy mode? As opposed to making it weird and difficult for everyone else and then watching Emacs die.
  - phist_mcgee 5y ago
    Sadly emacs as a community is moving too glacially towards user friendliness for the sake of maintaining backwards compatibility. I don't see this trend changing any time soon, so fewer people every year will stick with it.
    - dmortin 5y ago
      That's why there are starter kits and configurators like the posted link. New users should not be recommended to use barebones emacs, because it's too alien. They should use a nicely preconfigured system instead.
- macintux 5y ago
  > Also, on macOS, cmd+c and cmd+v work be default. Whoa. Long-time user and I had no idea.

cyberbanjo 5y ago

cua-mode exists and it's been argued that it should be default.

bachmeier 5y ago
I'm aware. But it's not the default.
- nocman 5y ago
  Nor should it be, in my opinion. Emacs has a loyal user base, and changing to having cua-mode as the default would likely anger most, if not all of them. I highly doubt that the number of long-term users gained by the change would be even remotely significant.
  - bachmeier 5y ago
    > I highly doubt that the number of long-term users gained by the change would be even remotely significant. This sums up well the gigantic hurdles Emacs faces as it attempts to stay relevant over the next 20 years. We're talking about a single keyboard shortcut to switch back to legacy mode.
    - natrys 5y ago
      Emacs is more widely used today than ever before. There are more high quality packages being produced by the community today than I ever remember it being the case. It's only when you stop looking at growing absolute user numbers and instead get into percentage, is when you reach a conclusion like Emacs is struggling to stay relevant. That's like saying Lamborghini is struggling to stay relevant because of Toyota or something.
    - nocman 5y ago
      And a single setting for someone to change now if they want cua-mode. My point was that making the default cua-mode won't lead to a significant number of new long-term users, so it isn't worth the hassle it would create for people who are already using it. Also, emacs is not struggling to stay relevant. I fully expect that it will appeal to an audience of users similar to the one it appeals to today for decades to come.
- daptaq 5y ago
  This seems very unlikely, since CUA mode doesn't work perfectly, and the chance of the C-c prefix being given up for a single command is next to zero.

wtetzner 5y ago

> First, Emacs should have sensible defaults like Ctrl-c for copying and Ctrl-v for pasting. Except that would break a ton of existing commands, since ctrl-c is use as a prefix for a bunch of stuff already. You'd be making it hard for someone who already knows Emacs to use it. It shouldn't be a problem on personal machines, since you can override the defaults. But if you ssh into a server and need to use emacs, it would be problematic. Also, on macOS, cmd+c and cmd+v work be default.

bachmeier 5y ago
> You'd be making it hard for someone who already knows Emacs to use it. It would be a burden for a longtime user to have to enter one keyboard shortcut to move into legacy mode? As opposed to making it weird and difficult for everyone else and then watching Emacs die.
- phist_mcgee 5y ago
  Sadly emacs as a community is moving too glacially towards user friendliness for the sake of maintaining backwards compatibility. I don't see this trend changing any time soon, so fewer people every year will stick with it.
  - dmortin 5y ago
    That's why there are starter kits and configurators like the posted link. New users should not be recommended to use barebones emacs, because it's too alien. They should use a nicely preconfigured system instead.
macintux 5y ago
> Also, on macOS, cmd+c and cmd+v work be default. Whoa. Long-time user and I had no idea.