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I’m surprised that Apple doesn’t have a desire to play this role. They don’t sell ads so there’s no cannibalism and they have painted themselves (and advertised

I’m surprised that Apple doesn’t have a desire to play this role. They don’t sell ads so there’s no cannibalism and they have painted themselves (and advertised themselves) publicly as a company that cares about privacy and security. It seems like a natural avenue to win users in a world where the Windows alternative has more analytics and spyware than ever. A man can dream.

admax88qqq 5y ago
Apple only nominally cares about the web. They would rather all interactions go through apps and the app store where they get their cut.
- enos_feedler 5y ago
  Glad you’ve talked with leadership there and can confirm what many suspect but can’t prove
  - nixass 5y ago
    Is it brown in there?
  - admax88qqq 5y ago
    Fine, allow me to rephrase Based upon their actions I don't believe that Apple cares about the web beyond the bare minimum they have to to provide a tolerable browser experience for their users until everything happens via Apps.
    - enos_feedler 5y ago
      What have other browser makers done, beyond the status quo that has demonstrated a browser experience that is beyond tolerable, perhaps even good?
  - pid-1 5y ago
    Understanding how a company makes money will tell you a lot more than talking with any leader That's even more true for publicly traded companies
    - scarface74 5y ago
      Apple makes money on games with in app purchases. Not random apps that don’t charge users on the phone.
- toper-centage 5y ago
  It's funny because if you go watch the iPhone launch presentation, Jobs was all about the web, and having web apps on your phone. Fast forward and PWA are just recently possible, barely supported, and Apple would really prefer you not to use them. The incentives are clear, but it's still a sad story.
  - _jal 5y ago
    > Jobs was all about the web That was just the best answer he had to questions about third-party apps until they had the infra in place for it. Apple will never tell you ahead of time about changes like that. So, while I wouldn't exactly call it lying, you'll get answers like the above.
    - soperj 5y ago
      Why wouldn't you call it lying?
      - glatisaint 5y ago
        Because it was the truth at the time.
  - hbn 5y ago
    It's not so much that Jobs was "all about the web," it's just that he didn't want people writing bad software for the iPhone so he was against allowing third-party apps on it until after much convincing.
- lupire 5y ago
  For news, the common AMP use case, Apple uses Apple News news.apple.com as their version of AMP hijacking websites. It's not a paid app, just part of the walled garden experience.
- scarface74 5y ago
  Apple “cares about the web” and wants people to use the web because Google pays them $12 billion+ a year to be the default search engine. Most of the money Apple gets from the App Store is from pay to win games - north of 80%. It came out in the Epic Trial. Apple doesn’t really care if your banking app is a website or an app. They don’t make money either way. Most apps on the App Store that could be a web app don’t charge users.
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    Apple gets at least $99 per year plus device sales and usage data if it's an app. They also get to sell App Store ads to competing banks.
    - scarface74 5y ago
      $99 a year is a nothingburger. It wouldn’t even move the needle enough to motivate them. That’s not even pure profit. But the money they make on ads in the App Store has to pale in comparison to how much they get from Google
      - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
        > nothingburger What the heck is a nothingburger?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - searchableguy 5y ago
        Apple said there are 20 million registered developers in 2018. Now there must be more but $99 * 20 million is not nothing in annual revenue which is mostly profit.
        scarface74 5y ago
        App review, XCode, each app gets a certain amount of iCloud storage outside of what the user pays, bandwidth, etc. A “registered developer” is not necessarily a “paying developer”, you can register as a developer to get documentation etc. If you are working for a company creating an app, not all developers need to pay to publish an app. Also Mac developers don’t pay to distribute an app.
1propionyl 5y ago
Apple does not offer an equivalent tool, however as of iOS 13, the system hooks exist for one to be implemented. In particular, there is Christian Selig's Amplosion (same author as the Apollo Reddit client)[1], which works quite well. Costs a few dollars up front, but well worth it. There is sadly not a version or equivalent on macOS, but Christian has confirmed it is in-development. [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amplosion-redirect-amp-links/id1585734696 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amplosion-redirect-amp-links/i... P.S. Pairs well with PiPifier to bypass YouTube not allowing picture-in-picture or playing in the background without a subscription, and a good ad blocker.
- dexterdog 5y ago
  Why don't people just use a redirect extension and redirect ^https?:\/\/(.)(\/amp\/|\?amp|\?amp=.)$ to https://$1 https://$1
  - lupire 5y ago
    Because that only works in browsers with extensions, and extensions are yet another third party to trust.
    - dexterdog 5y ago
      Who doesn't use a browser with extensions? And it's open source. It's not phoning home.
nostromo 5y ago
Apple is disincentivized to take this on. Apple sells ads on search indirectly via Google. (Google pays Apple to be the default search engine.) Google’s payment to Apple is bigger than the revenue Apple makes from the Apple Watch.
nomel 5y ago
> I’m surprised that Apple doesn’t have a desire to play this role. They're being paid handsomely, by Google: > In 2020, The New York Times reported that Apple receives an estimated $8-12 billion per year in exchange for making Google the default search on its devices. According to one analyst, Google's payment to Apple in 2021 to maintain this status quo may have reached up to $15 billion. 1. https://www.macrumors.com/2022/01/05/google-pays-apple-stay-out-of-search/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/01/05/google-pays-apple-stay-...
tyrfing 5y ago
> They don’t sell ads so there’s no cannibalism Apple sells huge amounts of ads, I believe it's the fastest growing part of the business right now. Estimates are $5 billion in advertising revenue in 2021, with one projection of $20 billion annually within 3 years. In addition to this, Google pays them $15 billion to be the default search engine and sell ads. https://www.ft.com/content/074b881f-a931-4986-888e-2ac53e286b9d https://www.ft.com/content/074b881f-a931-4986-888e-2ac53e286...
- greenyoda 5y ago
  Archive of FT article on Apple Ads, to avoid paywall: https://archive.ph/EkWNq https://archive.ph/EkWNq
  - s3p 5y ago
    The hero we needed
- gpanders 5y ago
  Where do they sell ads outside of the App Store?
  - inferiorhuman 5y ago
    Off the top of my head there are ads for third-party apps in the Apple Health app, ads for subscriptions and whatever in the Music app, ads for the Apple credit card in the Wallet app, ads for completely irrelevant crap via "curated" lists in the Maps app (no way the SF Chronicle is getting free placement in Apple Maps).
    - PokestarFan 5y ago
      I mean for first-party ads that makes sense
mdavidn 5y ago
AMP pages consume less power (thus battery life) on Apple's mobile devices.
- dbbk 5y ago
HNHatesUsers 5y ago

admax88qqq 5y ago

Apple only nominally cares about the web. They would rather all interactions go through apps and the app store where they get their cut.

enos_feedler 5y ago
Glad you’ve talked with leadership there and can confirm what many suspect but can’t prove
- nixass 5y ago
  Is it brown in there?
- admax88qqq 5y ago
  Fine, allow me to rephrase Based upon their actions I don't believe that Apple cares about the web beyond the bare minimum they have to to provide a tolerable browser experience for their users until everything happens via Apps.
  - enos_feedler 5y ago
    What have other browser makers done, beyond the status quo that has demonstrated a browser experience that is beyond tolerable, perhaps even good?
- pid-1 5y ago
  Understanding how a company makes money will tell you a lot more than talking with any leader That's even more true for publicly traded companies
  - scarface74 5y ago
    Apple makes money on games with in app purchases. Not random apps that don’t charge users on the phone.
toper-centage 5y ago
It's funny because if you go watch the iPhone launch presentation, Jobs was all about the web, and having web apps on your phone. Fast forward and PWA are just recently possible, barely supported, and Apple would really prefer you not to use them. The incentives are clear, but it's still a sad story.
- _jal 5y ago
  > Jobs was all about the web That was just the best answer he had to questions about third-party apps until they had the infra in place for it. Apple will never tell you ahead of time about changes like that. So, while I wouldn't exactly call it lying, you'll get answers like the above.
  - soperj 5y ago
    Why wouldn't you call it lying?
    - glatisaint 5y ago
      Because it was the truth at the time.
- hbn 5y ago
  It's not so much that Jobs was "all about the web," it's just that he didn't want people writing bad software for the iPhone so he was against allowing third-party apps on it until after much convincing.
lupire 5y ago
For news, the common AMP use case, Apple uses Apple News news.apple.com as their version of AMP hijacking websites. It's not a paid app, just part of the walled garden experience.
scarface74 5y ago
Apple “cares about the web” and wants people to use the web because Google pays them $12 billion+ a year to be the default search engine. Most of the money Apple gets from the App Store is from pay to win games - north of 80%. It came out in the Epic Trial. Apple doesn’t really care if your banking app is a website or an app. They don’t make money either way. Most apps on the App Store that could be a web app don’t charge users.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  Apple gets at least $99 per year plus device sales and usage data if it's an app. They also get to sell App Store ads to competing banks.
  - scarface74 5y ago
    $99 a year is a nothingburger. It wouldn’t even move the needle enough to motivate them. That’s not even pure profit. But the money they make on ads in the App Store has to pale in comparison to how much they get from Google
    - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
      > nothingburger What the heck is a nothingburger?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - searchableguy 5y ago
      Apple said there are 20 million registered developers in 2018. Now there must be more but $99 * 20 million is not nothing in annual revenue which is mostly profit.
      - scarface74 5y ago
        App review, XCode, each app gets a certain amount of iCloud storage outside of what the user pays, bandwidth, etc. A “registered developer” is not necessarily a “paying developer”, you can register as a developer to get documentation etc. If you are working for a company creating an app, not all developers need to pay to publish an app. Also Mac developers don’t pay to distribute an app.

1propionyl 5y ago

Apple does not offer an equivalent tool, however as of iOS 13, the system hooks exist for one to be implemented. In particular, there is Christian Selig's Amplosion (same author as the Apollo Reddit client)[1], which works quite well. Costs a few dollars up front, but well worth it. There is sadly not a version or equivalent on macOS, but Christian has confirmed it is in-development. [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amplosion-redirect-amp-links/id1585734696 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amplosion-redirect-amp-links/i... P.S. Pairs well with PiPifier to bypass YouTube not allowing picture-in-picture or playing in the background without a subscription, and a good ad blocker.

dexterdog 5y ago
Why don't people just use a redirect extension and redirect ^https?:\/\/(.)(\/amp\/|\?amp|\?amp=.)$ to https://$1 https://$1
- lupire 5y ago
  Because that only works in browsers with extensions, and extensions are yet another third party to trust.
  - dexterdog 5y ago
    Who doesn't use a browser with extensions? And it's open source. It's not phoning home.

nostromo 5y ago

Apple is disincentivized to take this on. Apple sells ads on search indirectly via Google. (Google pays Apple to be the default search engine.) Google’s payment to Apple is bigger than the revenue Apple makes from the Apple Watch.

nomel 5y ago

> I’m surprised that Apple doesn’t have a desire to play this role. They're being paid handsomely, by Google: > In 2020, The New York Times reported that Apple receives an estimated $8-12 billion per year in exchange for making Google the default search on its devices. According to one analyst, Google's payment to Apple in 2021 to maintain this status quo may have reached up to $15 billion. 1. https://www.macrumors.com/2022/01/05/google-pays-apple-stay-out-of-search/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/01/05/google-pays-apple-stay-...

tyrfing 5y ago

> They don’t sell ads so there’s no cannibalism Apple sells huge amounts of ads, I believe it's the fastest growing part of the business right now. Estimates are $5 billion in advertising revenue in 2021, with one projection of $20 billion annually within 3 years. In addition to this, Google pays them $15 billion to be the default search engine and sell ads. https://www.ft.com/content/074b881f-a931-4986-888e-2ac53e286b9d https://www.ft.com/content/074b881f-a931-4986-888e-2ac53e286...

greenyoda 5y ago
Archive of FT article on Apple Ads, to avoid paywall: https://archive.ph/EkWNq https://archive.ph/EkWNq
- s3p 5y ago
  The hero we needed
gpanders 5y ago
Where do they sell ads outside of the App Store?
- inferiorhuman 5y ago
  Off the top of my head there are ads for third-party apps in the Apple Health app, ads for subscriptions and whatever in the Music app, ads for the Apple credit card in the Wallet app, ads for completely irrelevant crap via "curated" lists in the Maps app (no way the SF Chronicle is getting free placement in Apple Maps).
  - PokestarFan 5y ago
    I mean for first-party ads that makes sense

mdavidn 5y ago

AMP pages consume less power (thus battery life) on Apple's mobile devices.

dbbk 5y ago

HNHatesUsers 5y ago