4 ms·

Mozilla is a joke now. They've now converted Firefox into an ad-ware / spyware ( https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-search-ads-browser

Mozilla is a joke now. They've now converted Firefox into an ad-ware / spyware ( https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-search-ads-browser https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/7/22715179/firefox-suggest-... ) because the current geniuses leading Mozilla have decided that apart from the 5+ million users of uBlock Origin, every other Firefox users loves ads and wants them! They've earned 100's of millions of dollars from Firefox, and still claim that they don't have the resources to refactor the browser, modularise it and innovate it. I have always suspected that the current Brave CEO Brendan Eich was a victim of a malicious campaign intended to get him removed from Mozilla (which he co-founded, and later become a CEO of), because he would have been more vocal against Google in Mozilla, and wouldn't have been happy to let the Firefox codebase stagnate while everyone in Mozilla was content with the millions of dollars they were getting from Google. (His religious beliefs / political ideology was just an excuse and just made him an easy target). Edit: I am not endorsing Brave browser either, as there are some questionable privacy issues with it.

KennyBlanken 4y ago
What's a joke is claiming that paid suggestion search results "have converted Firefox into an ad-ware / spyware [sic]" I'm not a fan of them adding this and switching it on, but it's easily disabled... > Click on the hamburger menu and then select Settings > Click on Privacy and Security in the sidebar and scroll to Address Bar — Firefox Suggest > Select or deselect the checkbox for contextual suggestions to turn the feature on or off > Select or deselect the checkbox for “occasional sponsored suggestions”
- kreeben 4y ago
  >> I'm not a fan of them adding this Excuse me sir but you definitely sound like a fan. The really real joke is claiming that proclaiming that Mozilla is a joke is some sort of a joke. Out-of-the-box I would definitely classify Firefox as ad-ware/spy-ware.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Does that make Brave adware as well, since it ships with a suite of features fundamentally designed to serve you ads of their own creation?
    - kreeben 4y ago
      Isn't Brave's ads opt-in? I thought they were opt-in. Aren't they opt-in? So what are you on about?
      - soundnote 4y ago
        Ad Notifications are, I think occasional ads in new tab background images are on by default (they can be turned off with one toggle, separately from the other rotating pretty backgrounds)
    - soundnote 4y ago
      Of course they are. The company is an ad agency, that's how they make their money. They just try to do it in a less garbage way than the rest of the industry, but an ad is an ad, even if designed for privacy and opt-in.
- dogleash 4y ago
  >but it's easily disabled... No it's not. That's about as buried as it gets without hiding it in about:config. "Easily disabled" would be a button right next to the ad that said "never show me this dogshit again."
- webmobdev 4y ago
  Technically you are right, ofcourse. An adware is unwanted software designed to show you ads maliciously (no way to remove or turn it off). But let's look at some common features of adware / spyware: 1. Advertisements appear in places they shouldn’t be. (Yes in Firefox - ads in new tab and address bar). 2. Your web browser’s homepage has mysteriously changed without your permission. (Yes in Firefox - default custom home page) 3. New toolbars, extensions, or plugins suddenly populate your browser. (Yes in Firefox - bundles unwanted, uninstallable extensions) 4. Your computer starts automatically installing unwanted software applications. (Yes in Firefox - studies can install extensions without your knowledge). 5. Collect personal data without your knowledge (Yes in Firefox - ad partners and studies). Again, technically you are right that there are options to disable some of these things, (most of which are all enabled by default that the majority of users won't be aware of) ... But when a software imitates and behaves like an adware / spyware, Mozilla would do best to listen to their users criticism than call us ignorant.
coldpie 4y ago
- webmobdev 4y ago
  I can't comment on his personal ideology - I just respect his technical skills and contributions. But if what you say is true - that he has been leaning more and more to the right - I can't help wonder if the vicious campaign against him perhaps pushed him more to the right and made him a hardliner. The irrational beliefs of fundamentalists often rest on a foundation of victimhood (real or perceived, they are undoubtedly a painful personal experience). As we are learning, the internet's "cancel" culture ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancel_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancel_culture ) and echo chambers are making people's beliefs more rigid, and creating an unhealthy us vs them mentality. Till the scandal, Eich seemed to be quite professional in separating his work from his personal life / belief. If that has changed now, for the worse (like you seem to be hinting), then I do feel sorry for his situation.
  - soundnote 4y ago
    > Till the scandal, Eich seemed to be quite professional in separating his work from his personal life / belief. He still is. One of the reasons I like projects like Brave and Vivaldi is that although I can see/infer some of their staff's politics, the teams themselves understand that they're toolmakers. That the world is a better place if smiths focused on forging good hammers and either left the preaching to someone else or did it off the clock. Both projects have politics, but those are politics of browsermaking - privacy, lack of tracking, trying to give users more control rather than thinking they should tell you and me how to use their tools, what to think, what to see on the web. Brave and Vivaldi make hammers. And that is good.
soundnote 4y ago
Every browser is adware, though? Basically every browser in existence is funded through search engine deals, and Google, Microsoft and Apple are all ad agencies themselves. Even more privacy-respecting options like Vivaldi make their money from search deals, and as much as they try to build their model to be privacy respecting, Brave is still an ad agency. Next to no one is actually building browsers for a subscription or some other model in that vein. It'd be really hard to get an appreciable userbase that way.
- webmobdev 4y ago
  It's a real stretch calling every browser an adware because of the default search engine deals they make. Since every browser already includes an option to do a "quick search" through a search field or the address field, and would already be including a list of search engines for this, users don't mind if a few sponsored search engines find their way in the list as long as the browser doesn't force them to use it or prevent them from modifying the list. The ability to search from the browser, and the list of actual search engines to do this provides a real benefit to the users. Bundling intrusive ads into the browser not only provides no tangible benefit to the user, it also harms them - there's the loss of privacy associated in the data collection of personal data to display these ads and the waste of a users time, bandwidth and computing resources to display them. (This is also why users find a list of sponsored bookmarks more irritating as it provides most no benefit). The loss of trust and respect also needs to be considered - when you start doing data collection and introduce intrusive ads, how do I trust you to know the data collection stops?

KennyBlanken 4y ago

What's a joke is claiming that paid suggestion search results "have converted Firefox into an ad-ware / spyware [sic]" I'm not a fan of them adding this and switching it on, but it's easily disabled... > Click on the hamburger menu and then select Settings > Click on Privacy and Security in the sidebar and scroll to Address Bar — Firefox Suggest > Select or deselect the checkbox for contextual suggestions to turn the feature on or off > Select or deselect the checkbox for “occasional sponsored suggestions”

kreeben 4y ago
>> I'm not a fan of them adding this Excuse me sir but you definitely sound like a fan. The really real joke is claiming that proclaiming that Mozilla is a joke is some sort of a joke. Out-of-the-box I would definitely classify Firefox as ad-ware/spy-ware.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Does that make Brave adware as well, since it ships with a suite of features fundamentally designed to serve you ads of their own creation?
  - kreeben 4y ago
    Isn't Brave's ads opt-in? I thought they were opt-in. Aren't they opt-in? So what are you on about?
    - soundnote 4y ago
      Ad Notifications are, I think occasional ads in new tab background images are on by default (they can be turned off with one toggle, separately from the other rotating pretty backgrounds)
  - soundnote 4y ago
    Of course they are. The company is an ad agency, that's how they make their money. They just try to do it in a less garbage way than the rest of the industry, but an ad is an ad, even if designed for privacy and opt-in.
dogleash 4y ago
>but it's easily disabled... No it's not. That's about as buried as it gets without hiding it in about:config. "Easily disabled" would be a button right next to the ad that said "never show me this dogshit again."
webmobdev 4y ago
Technically you are right, ofcourse. An adware is unwanted software designed to show you ads maliciously (no way to remove or turn it off). But let's look at some common features of adware / spyware: 1. Advertisements appear in places they shouldn’t be. (Yes in Firefox - ads in new tab and address bar). 2. Your web browser’s homepage has mysteriously changed without your permission. (Yes in Firefox - default custom home page) 3. New toolbars, extensions, or plugins suddenly populate your browser. (Yes in Firefox - bundles unwanted, uninstallable extensions) 4. Your computer starts automatically installing unwanted software applications. (Yes in Firefox - studies can install extensions without your knowledge). 5. Collect personal data without your knowledge (Yes in Firefox - ad partners and studies). Again, technically you are right that there are options to disable some of these things, (most of which are all enabled by default that the majority of users won't be aware of) ... But when a software imitates and behaves like an adware / spyware, Mozilla would do best to listen to their users criticism than call us ignorant.

coldpie 4y ago

webmobdev 4y ago
I can't comment on his personal ideology - I just respect his technical skills and contributions. But if what you say is true - that he has been leaning more and more to the right - I can't help wonder if the vicious campaign against him perhaps pushed him more to the right and made him a hardliner. The irrational beliefs of fundamentalists often rest on a foundation of victimhood (real or perceived, they are undoubtedly a painful personal experience). As we are learning, the internet's "cancel" culture ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancel_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancel_culture ) and echo chambers are making people's beliefs more rigid, and creating an unhealthy us vs them mentality. Till the scandal, Eich seemed to be quite professional in separating his work from his personal life / belief. If that has changed now, for the worse (like you seem to be hinting), then I do feel sorry for his situation.
- soundnote 4y ago
  > Till the scandal, Eich seemed to be quite professional in separating his work from his personal life / belief. He still is. One of the reasons I like projects like Brave and Vivaldi is that although I can see/infer some of their staff's politics, the teams themselves understand that they're toolmakers. That the world is a better place if smiths focused on forging good hammers and either left the preaching to someone else or did it off the clock. Both projects have politics, but those are politics of browsermaking - privacy, lack of tracking, trying to give users more control rather than thinking they should tell you and me how to use their tools, what to think, what to see on the web. Brave and Vivaldi make hammers. And that is good.

soundnote 4y ago

Every browser is adware, though? Basically every browser in existence is funded through search engine deals, and Google, Microsoft and Apple are all ad agencies themselves. Even more privacy-respecting options like Vivaldi make their money from search deals, and as much as they try to build their model to be privacy respecting, Brave is still an ad agency. Next to no one is actually building browsers for a subscription or some other model in that vein. It'd be really hard to get an appreciable userbase that way.

webmobdev 4y ago
It's a real stretch calling every browser an adware because of the default search engine deals they make. Since every browser already includes an option to do a "quick search" through a search field or the address field, and would already be including a list of search engines for this, users don't mind if a few sponsored search engines find their way in the list as long as the browser doesn't force them to use it or prevent them from modifying the list. The ability to search from the browser, and the list of actual search engines to do this provides a real benefit to the users. Bundling intrusive ads into the browser not only provides no tangible benefit to the user, it also harms them - there's the loss of privacy associated in the data collection of personal data to display these ads and the waste of a users time, bandwidth and computing resources to display them. (This is also why users find a list of sponsored bookmarks more irritating as it provides most no benefit). The loss of trust and respect also needs to be considered - when you start doing data collection and introduce intrusive ads, how do I trust you to know the data collection stops?