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> To those condemning Yandex for the war in Ukraine Think about western oil companies and several wars in the middle east. Those companies actually lobbied for

by cies 5y ago

> To those condemning Yandex for the war in Ukraine Think about western oil companies and several wars in the middle east. Those companies actually lobbied for conflict in some cases. > the US government forbade the reporting of military personnel coffins returning from the war zone, and news sources complied And there a democracy died. (again) > What doesn't happen everywhere and every time is a rogue nation attacking their neighbors and killing civilians using laughable pretexts while the real goal is to take control of a very resourceful and industrialized area (Donbas) to be used to help the already poor Russian economy. This is one side of the story. The Ukrainian side. There is another side to that, in which the pro-Russian part of the Ukrainian population was silenced. Before Maidan 2014 the biggest party was pro-Russian (30%) and after Maidan they were forbidden to exist. The people of the Donbas have been terrorized by Ukrainian military. Ukrainians who have nazi training camps for children (there is a whole documentary about them from The Guardian on YT). > The enemy is the Russian government and the rich oligarchy behind it Same with the Iraq wars, Libya, Vietnam, Afganistan and the US. Let call out all oppressors. But then the Kiev government since 2014 also needs to be called out for the atrocities on the Donbas.

xtian 5y ago
woodruffw 5y ago
What's the point of this comment? You don't have to like or support the US or deny its atrocities to observe the atrocities currently being committed in Ukraine. > Ukrainians who have nazi training camps for children (there is a whole documentary about them from The Guardian on YT). I think it would behoove you to actually link to this. It's hard to tell from context whether you're claiming that the Ukrainian government is engaging in neo-Nazi education (this would be extraordinary) or whether some neo-Nazis in Ukraine are doing so (this would be upsetting, but not particularly surprising for Eastern Europe in general).
- xtian 5y ago
  The Guardian video is here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jiBXmbkwiSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jiBXmbkwiSw The paramilitary group which organized the camp was officially integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard. One of its members recently joined Zelensky in addressing the Greek parliament: https://greekreporter.com/2022/04/07/greek-azov-fighter-zelensky-speech-greek-parliament https://greekreporter.com/2022/04/07/greek-azov-fighter-zele...
  - cies 5y ago
    Openly Ukrainian nazi youth training camp video, by the Guardian (western MSM), in 2017, easy to find on YT. And organizer also has ties to Kiev gov't. Story unfolding... But down voted :)
- Nerwesta 5y ago
  It's a bit of both really, the far-right extremists helped the Maidan regime change, so the paramilitary made themselves at home inside the governement and in many areas in this country ( remember, that's a large country, divided and diverse ). Now ? I really don't know, but if you happen to see any report before February 2022 you could have your questions answered easily. Without them, the revolution wouldn't be successful. Reports dating back to 2014-2015 clearly show children being educated in a strange manner, when it was kind of allowed to say the complicated truth inside this nation.
- cies 5y ago
  > What's the point of this comment? The west is so quick to condemn Russia, where the west has been warring all over the place with less good reasons to invaded that Russia. Keep in mind that: there are many Russians is Ukra, Russians were marginalized in Ukra especially since 2014, Russia is next to Ukra (unlike the middle east to say the US) so they have reasons to protect their safety, Ukra got Crimea during USSR times from Russia, and Putin made clear demands of what is needed for the war to be over (not part of any block, accept Crimea is Russia, Donbas gains autonomy). This is a much more understandable invasion to me than Iraq 1+2, Libya, Syria, Afganistan and Vietnam. > I think it would behoove you to actually link to this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiBXmbkwiSw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiBXmbkwiSw > It's hard to tell from context whether you're claiming that the Ukrainian government is engaging in neo-Nazi education (this would be extraordinary) or whether some neo-Nazis in Ukraine are doing so (this would be upsetting, but not particularly surprising for Eastern Europe in general). The second. But no crackdown from the central gov't (while it breaks international law) and you see links with the openly nazi Azov battalion everywhere in the training camp.
  - dshpala 5y ago
    Correction - what is happening is not an "invasion", it's war. War, plain and simple. The first step to fixing a problem is naming it. And Russians can't even do that.
  - vladgur 5y ago
    Are you calling Ukraine Ukra? I cant tell if you are trying to save bandwidth or sound demeaning to the country and its people. These so-called safety reasons are Russian propaganda lies as there was 0 reasons for a nuclear-armed Russia to be afraid of Ukrainian military attacking its territories. Remember, Ukrainian politics have a lifespan of 4 years, so they have to fight to stay in the office. For Russian, their czar is forever, so his illusions of grandeur are lifelong.
  - reducesuffering 5y ago
    A Russian invasion of Ukraine is more understandable than "Iraq 1", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War , which was Iraq invading Kuwait and the US freeing Kuwait from Iraqi invasion, scud missiles, and tanks? Of course that's more "understandable" to you, because the rest of your history is equally misinformed and backwards.
green-eclipse 5y ago
This is an amazing twisting of facts and rewriting of history. Propaganda at its best.
- tonguez 5y ago
  well that settles it then. thanks for clearing that up
- kspacewalk2 5y ago
  >This is an amazing twisting of facts and rewriting of history. That basically sums up Russia in 2022. Pure unadulterated fascism borne out of delusions of grandeur and rewriting of history, its own and that of its neighbours.
lotusmars 5y ago
So tired of this Kremlin propaganda everywhere and Western people actually believing it. We were force fed this bullshit everyday on Russian TV and Yandex News. Please resist it while we in Russia couldn't.
- tonguez 5y ago
  compelling counter-argument
jotm 5y ago
> after Maidan they were forbidden to exist. not back then, but they banned them in March during the war. > Kiev government since 2014 also needs to be called out for the atrocities on the Donbas 1. Donbas separatists (backed by Russia + actual Russian forces) started the conflict. 2. Why didn't Russia just clear out Donbas/Luhansk republics instead of the whole of Ukraine? I hope you live in Russia, it's perfect for you.
- cies 5y ago
  > 1. Donbas separatists (backed by Russia + actual Russian forces) started the conflict. Before or after the pro-Russian political party was forbidden? Let's assume people in Donbas voted that a lot, would seperatism be such a weird thing for them? 2. Why didn't Russia just clear out Donbas/Luhansk republics instead of the whole of Ukraine? I dont know the Russian military's strategy decisions. But I think we can all agree the focus of this war is on the Donbas. The approach to Kiev seems to have been a diversion. Some expect a major push to Kiev in the coming weeks; some expect the peace deal (the Russian demands been pretty clear from the start) to be signed right before Kiev gets taken.
  - krzyk 5y ago
    Again pro Russian party was forbidden when Russia attacked. Do you think having a potential traitor party during war is good? Where there many pro German parties during WW2 in countries that it attacked? Please tell me how was Czeczen separatists treated in Russia? If Russia is so for separations of other nations let their own republics do the same.
    - cies 5y ago
      > Do you think having a potential traitor party during war is good? If the biggest party before Maidan (30%) is forbidden as a "traitor party", can it be really called as such? Or was Ukraine before Maidan openly pro-Russian, and was the Kiev regime the traitors? > Please tell me how was Czeczen separatists treated in Russia? I cannot agree more. Not always separatists are allowed to separate. Even Spain had a episode of that recently. Though, the pro-Russian crowd in Ukraine feels somewhat Russian, and Russia is sympathetic to them. If the Czeczens were entically chinese, their faith may also've been different.
acidioxide 5y ago
That's russian propaganda. -> Russian - speaking Ukrainians want to join RF -> Symmetry in action between Ukraine and Russia (we do bad things, but they do them too) -> Ukrainians are nazis These are all theses fabricated by Kremlin.
- themgt 5y ago
  Having any more nuanced position regarding world affairs than "our guys: good. their guys: bad" is bad guy propaganda.
- CapricornNoble 5y ago
  >>> Ukrainians are nazis >>These are all theses fabricated by Kremlin. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-... https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/ https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms... https://geohistory.today/azov-movement-ukraine/ https://geohistory.today/azov-movement-ukraine/ http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/7/24/ukraine-azov-battalion.html http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/7/24/ukraine-azov... Here's a choice quote from this article: “Ukraine should be for Ukrainians,” Lemko said. “We don’t need the European idea of multicultural extremism here. Ukraine must protect its cultural and ethnic integrity.” I'm sure Mr Lemko from Canada was actually a double agent planted by Putin... /sarc
  - acidioxide 5y ago
    I am fully aware of ukrainian nationalists. During II world war and after Ukrainian Insurgent Army has committed genocide on polish civilians killing 50 - 60 thousand. But you need to distinguish. If refugees are knocking to my door I won't say: "You are Nazis". If Ukraine is defending against invasion, I will advocate for sending weapons. And so on.
    - CapricornNoble 5y ago
      >>>But you need to distinguish. If refugees are knocking to my door I won't say: "You are Nazis". If Ukraine is defending against invasion, I will advocate for sending weapons. And so on. Sure, but there is a big gulf between "Ukrainian Nazis are Kremlin misinformation" and "We recognize some of your people are morally questionable but still desire to arm/equip you in the justified defense of your homeland." We used to be much more honest with ourselves when we were getting in bed with useful bastards (Werner von Braun running our space program and Eric von Manstein "advising" the post-war Bundeswehr are two of my favorites). Messaging has devolved into a very simplistic good/bad binary model when reality is much more grey.
some_random 5y ago
Absolutely incredible whataboutism, your restatement of Russian propaganda needs some work though, you should focus more on Azov maybe.
kspacewalk2 5y ago
>There is another side to that, in which the pro-Russian part of the Ukrainian population was silenced. Fiction. Silenced how? They are in parliament, and until recently Russia-sponsored TV propaganda outlets were on the air throughtout Ukraine. >Before Maidan 2014 the biggest party was pro-Russian (30%) and after Maidan they were forbidden to exist. More fiction. Party of Regions existed after Yanukovych fled and merged into another pro-Russia outfit in 2016. >The people of the Donbas have been terrorized by Ukrainian military. 16 civilians died in Donbas in 2021, that's on both sides. 25 died in 2020. It was a very low-scale war and most people were living in peace. But goodie goodie, Russia has come to liberate them, and is now murdering thousands with indiscriminate bombings, to say nothing of the mass executions, rapes and so on. >Ukrainians who have nazi training camps for children (there is a whole documentary about them from The Guardian on YT). This happens everywhere. I personally know someone in Russia who sent their kids to very sketchy pan-Slavic 'rodnover' far-right camps.
- CapricornNoble 5y ago
  >>>>16 civilians died in Donbas in 2021, that's on both sides. 25 died in 2020. It was a very low-scale war and most people were living in peace. And how many were bombed by their own government 2014-2019? I get the impression they are still pissed about that. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-airstrike-kills-11-demolishes-apartment-block-in-separatist-area-1.2707282 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-airstrike-kills-11-dem... Everyone with an interest in this conflict should be searching on DuckDuckGo with their date range set to 2021 at the latest. Western persectives on Zelensky (-2021), perspectives on the conflict in the east (2014-2016), or the really good stuff is Western experts warning about the risks of NATO expansion (set your date range 2000-2010).
  - vladgur 5y ago
    The article itself mentions that both sides blame each other without taking accountability. The story of Donetsk and Luhansk is littered with influence by FSB operatives as well pro-Russian ukrainian politics back in 2014. The statement above with civilian deaths being in low double digits in 2021 is correct as the conflict has reached the status quo which had a good chance of being resolved politically. Whatever our stance on the reason behind the conflict in Eastern Ukraine is, we seem to agree that it was pretty bad in 2014-2019 and it has been relatively low-key in 2019(Zelenskiy got elected) and on. Any civilian deaths are terrible, but to put things in perspective: more people Died in car accidents in DNR/LNR then due to the conflict. So any reasoning of Russia attacking Ukraine, flattening cities, destroying civilian buildings as being caused by a conflict in DNR/LNR is pure Russian propaganda.
dshpala 5y ago
Ah good old "but they lynch African Americans in USA" distraction. Russian TV loves it. BTW today is day 55 of the war in Ukraine. 55 days it's not about "sides of the story" it is about Russians bombing and killing Ukrainians. And then denying that. Stop the war. Then we can talk.
federoccco 5y ago
Point by point. 1. The same politicians who were in party of regions (Yanukovich party) quickly reorganized into new political parties. So there were “pro-Russian” political parties in Ukrainian politics, who participated in parliament elections in 2014 and in 2019, and in presidential elections in 2014 and 2019. So the point that people in Eastern Ukraine were marginalized politically is a lie. 2. Ukrainian forces in 2014-2015 attacked armed forces of separatists and Russian troops, civilians never were the target. More than a million people left separatist republics for Ukraine, why would they do that if they were terrorized? 3. There are training camps for youth in Ukraine, which are funded by political organizations. They are not “Nazi”, similar things exist in Russia as well - like Yunarmiya for example.

by cies 5y ago

xtian 5y ago

woodruffw 5y ago

What's the point of this comment? You don't have to like or support the US or deny its atrocities to observe the atrocities currently being committed in Ukraine. > Ukrainians who have nazi training camps for children (there is a whole documentary about them from The Guardian on YT). I think it would behoove you to actually link to this. It's hard to tell from context whether you're claiming that the Ukrainian government is engaging in neo-Nazi education (this would be extraordinary) or whether some neo-Nazis in Ukraine are doing so (this would be upsetting, but not particularly surprising for Eastern Europe in general).

xtian 5y ago
The Guardian video is here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jiBXmbkwiSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jiBXmbkwiSw The paramilitary group which organized the camp was officially integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard. One of its members recently joined Zelensky in addressing the Greek parliament: https://greekreporter.com/2022/04/07/greek-azov-fighter-zelensky-speech-greek-parliament https://greekreporter.com/2022/04/07/greek-azov-fighter-zele...
- cies 5y ago
  Openly Ukrainian nazi youth training camp video, by the Guardian (western MSM), in 2017, easy to find on YT. And organizer also has ties to Kiev gov't. Story unfolding... But down voted :)
Nerwesta 5y ago
It's a bit of both really, the far-right extremists helped the Maidan regime change, so the paramilitary made themselves at home inside the governement and in many areas in this country ( remember, that's a large country, divided and diverse ). Now ? I really don't know, but if you happen to see any report before February 2022 you could have your questions answered easily. Without them, the revolution wouldn't be successful. Reports dating back to 2014-2015 clearly show children being educated in a strange manner, when it was kind of allowed to say the complicated truth inside this nation.
cies 5y ago
> What's the point of this comment? The west is so quick to condemn Russia, where the west has been warring all over the place with less good reasons to invaded that Russia. Keep in mind that: there are many Russians is Ukra, Russians were marginalized in Ukra especially since 2014, Russia is next to Ukra (unlike the middle east to say the US) so they have reasons to protect their safety, Ukra got Crimea during USSR times from Russia, and Putin made clear demands of what is needed for the war to be over (not part of any block, accept Crimea is Russia, Donbas gains autonomy). This is a much more understandable invasion to me than Iraq 1+2, Libya, Syria, Afganistan and Vietnam. > I think it would behoove you to actually link to this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiBXmbkwiSw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiBXmbkwiSw > It's hard to tell from context whether you're claiming that the Ukrainian government is engaging in neo-Nazi education (this would be extraordinary) or whether some neo-Nazis in Ukraine are doing so (this would be upsetting, but not particularly surprising for Eastern Europe in general). The second. But no crackdown from the central gov't (while it breaks international law) and you see links with the openly nazi Azov battalion everywhere in the training camp.
- dshpala 5y ago
  Correction - what is happening is not an "invasion", it's war. War, plain and simple. The first step to fixing a problem is naming it. And Russians can't even do that.
- vladgur 5y ago
  Are you calling Ukraine Ukra? I cant tell if you are trying to save bandwidth or sound demeaning to the country and its people. These so-called safety reasons are Russian propaganda lies as there was 0 reasons for a nuclear-armed Russia to be afraid of Ukrainian military attacking its territories. Remember, Ukrainian politics have a lifespan of 4 years, so they have to fight to stay in the office. For Russian, their czar is forever, so his illusions of grandeur are lifelong.
- reducesuffering 5y ago
  A Russian invasion of Ukraine is more understandable than "Iraq 1", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War , which was Iraq invading Kuwait and the US freeing Kuwait from Iraqi invasion, scud missiles, and tanks? Of course that's more "understandable" to you, because the rest of your history is equally misinformed and backwards.

green-eclipse 5y ago

This is an amazing twisting of facts and rewriting of history. Propaganda at its best.

tonguez 5y ago
well that settles it then. thanks for clearing that up
kspacewalk2 5y ago
>This is an amazing twisting of facts and rewriting of history. That basically sums up Russia in 2022. Pure unadulterated fascism borne out of delusions of grandeur and rewriting of history, its own and that of its neighbours.

lotusmars 5y ago

So tired of this Kremlin propaganda everywhere and Western people actually believing it. We were force fed this bullshit everyday on Russian TV and Yandex News. Please resist it while we in Russia couldn't.

tonguez 5y ago
compelling counter-argument

jotm 5y ago

> after Maidan they were forbidden to exist. not back then, but they banned them in March during the war. > Kiev government since 2014 also needs to be called out for the atrocities on the Donbas 1. Donbas separatists (backed by Russia + actual Russian forces) started the conflict. 2. Why didn't Russia just clear out Donbas/Luhansk republics instead of the whole of Ukraine? I hope you live in Russia, it's perfect for you.

cies 5y ago
> 1. Donbas separatists (backed by Russia + actual Russian forces) started the conflict. Before or after the pro-Russian political party was forbidden? Let's assume people in Donbas voted that a lot, would seperatism be such a weird thing for them? 2. Why didn't Russia just clear out Donbas/Luhansk republics instead of the whole of Ukraine? I dont know the Russian military's strategy decisions. But I think we can all agree the focus of this war is on the Donbas. The approach to Kiev seems to have been a diversion. Some expect a major push to Kiev in the coming weeks; some expect the peace deal (the Russian demands been pretty clear from the start) to be signed right before Kiev gets taken.
- krzyk 5y ago
  Again pro Russian party was forbidden when Russia attacked. Do you think having a potential traitor party during war is good? Where there many pro German parties during WW2 in countries that it attacked? Please tell me how was Czeczen separatists treated in Russia? If Russia is so for separations of other nations let their own republics do the same.
  - cies 5y ago
    > Do you think having a potential traitor party during war is good? If the biggest party before Maidan (30%) is forbidden as a "traitor party", can it be really called as such? Or was Ukraine before Maidan openly pro-Russian, and was the Kiev regime the traitors? > Please tell me how was Czeczen separatists treated in Russia? I cannot agree more. Not always separatists are allowed to separate. Even Spain had a episode of that recently. Though, the pro-Russian crowd in Ukraine feels somewhat Russian, and Russia is sympathetic to them. If the Czeczens were entically chinese, their faith may also've been different.

acidioxide 5y ago

That's russian propaganda. -> Russian - speaking Ukrainians want to join RF -> Symmetry in action between Ukraine and Russia (we do bad things, but they do them too) -> Ukrainians are nazis These are all theses fabricated by Kremlin.

themgt 5y ago
Having any more nuanced position regarding world affairs than "our guys: good. their guys: bad" is bad guy propaganda.
CapricornNoble 5y ago
>>> Ukrainians are nazis >>These are all theses fabricated by Kremlin. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-... https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/ https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms... https://geohistory.today/azov-movement-ukraine/ https://geohistory.today/azov-movement-ukraine/ http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/7/24/ukraine-azov-battalion.html http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/7/24/ukraine-azov... Here's a choice quote from this article: “Ukraine should be for Ukrainians,” Lemko said. “We don’t need the European idea of multicultural extremism here. Ukraine must protect its cultural and ethnic integrity.” I'm sure Mr Lemko from Canada was actually a double agent planted by Putin... /sarc
- acidioxide 5y ago
  I am fully aware of ukrainian nationalists. During II world war and after Ukrainian Insurgent Army has committed genocide on polish civilians killing 50 - 60 thousand. But you need to distinguish. If refugees are knocking to my door I won't say: "You are Nazis". If Ukraine is defending against invasion, I will advocate for sending weapons. And so on.
  - CapricornNoble 5y ago
    >>>But you need to distinguish. If refugees are knocking to my door I won't say: "You are Nazis". If Ukraine is defending against invasion, I will advocate for sending weapons. And so on. Sure, but there is a big gulf between "Ukrainian Nazis are Kremlin misinformation" and "We recognize some of your people are morally questionable but still desire to arm/equip you in the justified defense of your homeland." We used to be much more honest with ourselves when we were getting in bed with useful bastards (Werner von Braun running our space program and Eric von Manstein "advising" the post-war Bundeswehr are two of my favorites). Messaging has devolved into a very simplistic good/bad binary model when reality is much more grey.

some_random 5y ago

Absolutely incredible whataboutism, your restatement of Russian propaganda needs some work though, you should focus more on Azov maybe.

kspacewalk2 5y ago

>There is another side to that, in which the pro-Russian part of the Ukrainian population was silenced. Fiction. Silenced how? They are in parliament, and until recently Russia-sponsored TV propaganda outlets were on the air throughtout Ukraine. >Before Maidan 2014 the biggest party was pro-Russian (30%) and after Maidan they were forbidden to exist. More fiction. Party of Regions existed after Yanukovych fled and merged into another pro-Russia outfit in 2016. >The people of the Donbas have been terrorized by Ukrainian military. 16 civilians died in Donbas in 2021, that's on both sides. 25 died in 2020. It was a very low-scale war and most people were living in peace. But goodie goodie, Russia has come to liberate them, and is now murdering thousands with indiscriminate bombings, to say nothing of the mass executions, rapes and so on. >Ukrainians who have nazi training camps for children (there is a whole documentary about them from The Guardian on YT). This happens everywhere. I personally know someone in Russia who sent their kids to very sketchy pan-Slavic 'rodnover' far-right camps.

CapricornNoble 5y ago
>>>>16 civilians died in Donbas in 2021, that's on both sides. 25 died in 2020. It was a very low-scale war and most people were living in peace. And how many were bombed by their own government 2014-2019? I get the impression they are still pissed about that. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-airstrike-kills-11-demolishes-apartment-block-in-separatist-area-1.2707282 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-airstrike-kills-11-dem... Everyone with an interest in this conflict should be searching on DuckDuckGo with their date range set to 2021 at the latest. Western persectives on Zelensky (-2021), perspectives on the conflict in the east (2014-2016), or the really good stuff is Western experts warning about the risks of NATO expansion (set your date range 2000-2010).
- vladgur 5y ago
  The article itself mentions that both sides blame each other without taking accountability. The story of Donetsk and Luhansk is littered with influence by FSB operatives as well pro-Russian ukrainian politics back in 2014. The statement above with civilian deaths being in low double digits in 2021 is correct as the conflict has reached the status quo which had a good chance of being resolved politically. Whatever our stance on the reason behind the conflict in Eastern Ukraine is, we seem to agree that it was pretty bad in 2014-2019 and it has been relatively low-key in 2019(Zelenskiy got elected) and on. Any civilian deaths are terrible, but to put things in perspective: more people Died in car accidents in DNR/LNR then due to the conflict. So any reasoning of Russia attacking Ukraine, flattening cities, destroying civilian buildings as being caused by a conflict in DNR/LNR is pure Russian propaganda.

dshpala 5y ago

Ah good old "but they lynch African Americans in USA" distraction. Russian TV loves it. BTW today is day 55 of the war in Ukraine. 55 days it's not about "sides of the story" it is about Russians bombing and killing Ukrainians. And then denying that. Stop the war. Then we can talk.

federoccco 5y ago

Point by point. 1. The same politicians who were in party of regions (Yanukovich party) quickly reorganized into new political parties. So there were “pro-Russian” political parties in Ukrainian politics, who participated in parliament elections in 2014 and in 2019, and in presidential elections in 2014 and 2019. So the point that people in Eastern Ukraine were marginalized politically is a lie. 2. Ukrainian forces in 2014-2015 attacked armed forces of separatists and Russian troops, civilians never were the target. More than a million people left separatist republics for Ukraine, why would they do that if they were terrorized? 3. There are training camps for youth in Ukraine, which are funded by political organizations. They are not “Nazi”, similar things exist in Russia as well - like Yunarmiya for example.