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This kind of attitude is what makes FOSS good compared to (for example) ChromeOS though. It's hard to see when you've got one singular problem in front of you b

by usrn 5y ago

This kind of attitude is what makes FOSS good compared to (for example) ChromeOS though. It's hard to see when you've got one singular problem in front of you but once you abandon your principles and change all these things you're left with what is essentially Windows lite. It might be popular but it's hardly an improvement.

eptcyka 5y ago
I don't think equating FOSS with tedious rituals does any good to any one. You can still have Debian installers be the way they are, with the addition of having a button that enabled non-free firmware to remove the need for USB tethering and three reboots. FOSS has a problem with UX design, and this is definitely one symptom.
- usrn 5y ago
  >You can still have Debian installers be the way they are, with the addition of having a button that enabled non-free firmware Like I said, each thing is just "fix this one thing by compromising principles." If you do that with all the UX problems you literally end up with ChromeOS. Different distros are on different places along the spectrum between Debian and ChromeOS. Ubuntu is further along for example, so you get applications in containers and other things like that.
  - eptcyka 5y ago
    Allowing one to make the choice in a pragmatic manner instead of wasting time dancing around to praise the FOSS gods to achieve the same end goal is stupid. Just having an option in the installer to allow non-free firmware and drivers won't move Debian to be any closer to ChromeOS. It will make it easier to use for a lot of people. Stop with this false dichotomy that bad UX implies giving up freedoms. All I'm arguing for is allowing users to make their choices about their own freedoms easier.
    - usrn 5y ago
      >Compromising on freedom doesn't result in a loss of freedom This is an immediate and direct contradiction.
      - eptcyka 5y ago
        The freedom is already lost, it just takes users more time to get their machine to have a working network connection.
LtWorf_ 5y ago
If you don't jump the hoops you're just left with a machine that only runs windows. The choice is literally between the non free firmware or your wifi and ethernet cards will not work.

by usrn 5y ago

eptcyka 5y ago

I don't think equating FOSS with tedious rituals does any good to any one. You can still have Debian installers be the way they are, with the addition of having a button that enabled non-free firmware to remove the need for USB tethering and three reboots. FOSS has a problem with UX design, and this is definitely one symptom.

usrn 5y ago
>You can still have Debian installers be the way they are, with the addition of having a button that enabled non-free firmware Like I said, each thing is just "fix this one thing by compromising principles." If you do that with all the UX problems you literally end up with ChromeOS. Different distros are on different places along the spectrum between Debian and ChromeOS. Ubuntu is further along for example, so you get applications in containers and other things like that.
- eptcyka 5y ago
  Allowing one to make the choice in a pragmatic manner instead of wasting time dancing around to praise the FOSS gods to achieve the same end goal is stupid. Just having an option in the installer to allow non-free firmware and drivers won't move Debian to be any closer to ChromeOS. It will make it easier to use for a lot of people. Stop with this false dichotomy that bad UX implies giving up freedoms. All I'm arguing for is allowing users to make their choices about their own freedoms easier.
  - usrn 5y ago
    >Compromising on freedom doesn't result in a loss of freedom This is an immediate and direct contradiction.
    - eptcyka 5y ago
      The freedom is already lost, it just takes users more time to get their machine to have a working network connection.

LtWorf_ 5y ago

If you don't jump the hoops you're just left with a machine that only runs windows. The choice is literally between the non free firmware or your wifi and ethernet cards will not work.