4 ms·

You have to be much more wary: don't sign with a label that at some point in the future gets bought by a label that gets bought by Universal

daniel-cussen 5y ago
Yeah it's wrong to pretend there's that much choice. And these shills always want the choice to be individual--hey if you don't the water label, don't use Universal. And in fact every label has something about it like this, like if you don't like getting the cover art discounted from your CD, don't use Warner Bros, if you don't like x, don't use y. But what they hate is when it's collective, like we got together with 1000 other artists and all of us are negotiating collectively to get the watermark removed. Because that actually has an impact.
tokai 5y ago
Why would anyone with artistic integrity sign with any label nowadays? Everyone can distribute. If people like your stuff you can make a label yourself eventually.
- mikro2nd 5y ago
  "Everyone can distribute" only if they're willing and competent to take on the jobs of marketing and distribution. Having heard much the same argument in relation to writers and self-publishing, it's a complete nonsense. Do you really want your favourite artist to spend 80% (arb. number made up for illustration) of their time doing stuff (marketing, that they are quite likely not much good at) or would you rather see them spend the time on the stuff they are good at -- the art? There's reasons these publishing/distribution industries exist, and I'd not wish their work on artists. The art is hard enough to do on it's own.
  - kortilla 5y ago
    The same thing can be said for the travel agency industry. The bar for publishing has significantly reduced so really it’s a question of the marketing piece you mentioned. Does an artist really need to sell to a label just to get marketing?
    - mikro2nd 5y ago
      What I'm trying to say (poorly) is this: every hour the artist has to spend on doing marketing (probably not well) is an hour they're NOT spending on their art. Me, I'd prefer to see them arting. (Not sure I understand your reference to the travel industry so well, but that's just me being dim.)
      - leviathant 5y ago
        Exactly! I'm probably commenting more deeply in this thread than is helpful, but my wife is a successful composer and DIY just. doesn't. scale. Even if you're not just coasting on some variation of financial inheritance, you can absolutely hustle - and if you get to a certain level of popularity, before you know it, you're spending most of your week answering emails and phone calls. For my wife, it was the pandemic, of all things, that pulled her out of this problem, because she got a PPP loan from the federal government, which gave her enough margin to finally hire a part-time personal assistant. Which in turn helped her get even more work. It's been real wild to watch. I still think that if you scramble, you should take on as much work as you (or your group) can handle DIY, so that you have leverage when the publishers and the record labels start paying attention. But if you want to be able to continue to make music after seeing some of that success, you'll start to understand why 'the industry' exists.
  - rdiddly 5y ago
    Some portion of the marketing work is necessary only because it's a big company that needs to keep going. When your costs are low, you can be more grass- roots about it.
- hbn 5y ago
  Jack Stratton, founder of one of my favorite bands, Vulfpeck did exactly this. He kept the band completely independent and label-free all the way to their 2019 show where they packed out Madison Square Garden. Pretty impressive! That said, I don't know if most artists have the time/know-how to do all the work required for that. Only tangentially related, but he's done some clever stunts in the band's history, such as releasing an album called "Sleepify" which was 10 completely silent tracks, and told fans to run the album on loop all night when they sleep to game the Spotify system, and the money made from that was used to put on a free tour.
- boomlinde 5y ago
  You can see a label as an organizational unit. In the best of worlds: As an artist I want to associate with a label because they already have an audience for the kind of music I work on. As a consumer I take note of the label and keep track of their catalog because they somewhat consistently release and promote music I am interested in. The label owners have a self-interest in promoting their catalog, doing work I personally want to spend as little time as possible on. My music has only cost me money in aggregate, and I've almost exclusively released music for free, as a hobby outside my day job. Thanks to labels I have reached an audience without doing much else than producing music and suggesting my music to labels. This has gotten me an audience where I might not have found one myself, for example in Russia (because I released an EP with a Russian netlabel in the mid 00s that then caught on because they promoted their catalog by hosting regular parties). You just have to be very wary, as I suggested, of what labels you sign with and what conditions. This is easy for beginners to overlook. But by all means, tell me more about why I should spend time "making a label" instead of making music, and explain how running a business around my music will affect my artistic integrity positively.
airstrike 5y ago
Or sign with the label and add a change of control clause to the contract? Not saying it's not easier said than done, but there are contractual ways to get out of the situation you describe

daniel-cussen 5y ago

Yeah it's wrong to pretend there's that much choice. And these shills always want the choice to be individual--hey if you don't the water label, don't use Universal. And in fact every label has something about it like this, like if you don't like getting the cover art discounted from your CD, don't use Warner Bros, if you don't like x, don't use y. But what they hate is when it's collective, like we got together with 1000 other artists and all of us are negotiating collectively to get the watermark removed. Because that actually has an impact.

tokai 5y ago

Why would anyone with artistic integrity sign with any label nowadays? Everyone can distribute. If people like your stuff you can make a label yourself eventually.

mikro2nd 5y ago
"Everyone can distribute" only if they're willing and competent to take on the jobs of marketing and distribution. Having heard much the same argument in relation to writers and self-publishing, it's a complete nonsense. Do you really want your favourite artist to spend 80% (arb. number made up for illustration) of their time doing stuff (marketing, that they are quite likely not much good at) or would you rather see them spend the time on the stuff they are good at -- the art? There's reasons these publishing/distribution industries exist, and I'd not wish their work on artists. The art is hard enough to do on it's own.
- kortilla 5y ago
  The same thing can be said for the travel agency industry. The bar for publishing has significantly reduced so really it’s a question of the marketing piece you mentioned. Does an artist really need to sell to a label just to get marketing?
  - mikro2nd 5y ago
    What I'm trying to say (poorly) is this: every hour the artist has to spend on doing marketing (probably not well) is an hour they're NOT spending on their art. Me, I'd prefer to see them arting. (Not sure I understand your reference to the travel industry so well, but that's just me being dim.)
    - leviathant 5y ago
      Exactly! I'm probably commenting more deeply in this thread than is helpful, but my wife is a successful composer and DIY just. doesn't. scale. Even if you're not just coasting on some variation of financial inheritance, you can absolutely hustle - and if you get to a certain level of popularity, before you know it, you're spending most of your week answering emails and phone calls. For my wife, it was the pandemic, of all things, that pulled her out of this problem, because she got a PPP loan from the federal government, which gave her enough margin to finally hire a part-time personal assistant. Which in turn helped her get even more work. It's been real wild to watch. I still think that if you scramble, you should take on as much work as you (or your group) can handle DIY, so that you have leverage when the publishers and the record labels start paying attention. But if you want to be able to continue to make music after seeing some of that success, you'll start to understand why 'the industry' exists.
- rdiddly 5y ago
  Some portion of the marketing work is necessary only because it's a big company that needs to keep going. When your costs are low, you can be more grass- roots about it.
hbn 5y ago
Jack Stratton, founder of one of my favorite bands, Vulfpeck did exactly this. He kept the band completely independent and label-free all the way to their 2019 show where they packed out Madison Square Garden. Pretty impressive! That said, I don't know if most artists have the time/know-how to do all the work required for that. Only tangentially related, but he's done some clever stunts in the band's history, such as releasing an album called "Sleepify" which was 10 completely silent tracks, and told fans to run the album on loop all night when they sleep to game the Spotify system, and the money made from that was used to put on a free tour.
boomlinde 5y ago
You can see a label as an organizational unit. In the best of worlds: As an artist I want to associate with a label because they already have an audience for the kind of music I work on. As a consumer I take note of the label and keep track of their catalog because they somewhat consistently release and promote music I am interested in. The label owners have a self-interest in promoting their catalog, doing work I personally want to spend as little time as possible on. My music has only cost me money in aggregate, and I've almost exclusively released music for free, as a hobby outside my day job. Thanks to labels I have reached an audience without doing much else than producing music and suggesting my music to labels. This has gotten me an audience where I might not have found one myself, for example in Russia (because I released an EP with a Russian netlabel in the mid 00s that then caught on because they promoted their catalog by hosting regular parties). You just have to be very wary, as I suggested, of what labels you sign with and what conditions. This is easy for beginners to overlook. But by all means, tell me more about why I should spend time "making a label" instead of making music, and explain how running a business around my music will affect my artistic integrity positively.

airstrike 5y ago

Or sign with the label and add a change of control clause to the contract? Not saying it's not easier said than done, but there are contractual ways to get out of the situation you describe