5 ms·

Most of the people around me seem to think that the safest route for me is to go pre-med, because it is a well-defined path that leads to a stable career. Thes

by naner 15y ago

Most of the people around me seem to think that the safest route for me is to go pre-med, because it is a well-defined path that leads to a stable career. These people are idiots. The path to a successful career in medicine is a long and difficult one. There is no such thing as normal hours, you will be working almost all the hours there are. On top of that you will be poor until your 30s, at which point you will still have a staggering amount of debt. A career as a medical doctor is a calling. If you do it for other reasons (such as it being "safe") you will burn out.

wccrawford 15y ago
While it's not the same, my sister is now a pharmacist. Even for that, she burned out once, and almost burned out a couple more times. She was doing it for the money. Luckily, she has found she likes the job, but that wasn't her initial reason.
asianexpress 15y ago
I definitely agree with what you say about medicine. It's not always that simple though -- some people really feel parental pressure on their lives. And it's not just parental pressure, it's peer pressure too. On top of societal pressure. I attended Yale and it feels like everyone is pre-med or trying to get into finance (consulting or investment banking). You sort of feel out of the loop if you're not doing these things (I was one of the dozen computer science majors in my year). A lot of these people don't see the problems until it's too late. The perception by society is that being a doctor is a stable well-paying job -- most people don't take into consideration, like you said, all the tuition costs, and years spent in school. If you go to Yale, you're expected to achieve great things -- that's just the societal pressure. Not everyone deals with it well. So some hide in the "safety" of what society expects, rather than pursuing their dreams. These people would be too embarrassed to pursue their dreams, if it meant say, being unemployed for years or working a minimum wage job. I suppose that's more of a pride issue, but sometimes it's borne of a want to please others (while unfortunately forgetting about self) That said, she's not even at the school yet -- she'll probably change her mind when she gets there. Plenty of people do once they're given a chance to think for themselves in a new environment. But plenty of people also ending up burning out because they've pursued pre-med or finance without it really being their calling, or love.
- BlackJack 15y ago
  I think she's already here since the article says "Earlier this fall." But yeah, I'm a CS major at Yale too (sophomore), and I almost went the finance route. Over the summer I realized that doing something interesting >> any amount of money. A lot of kids here are pre-meds or future IB/consultants, but there are also a lot of kids who aren't and do all sorts of awesome things. This year, there's also a much bigger interest in startups. Yale Hackers, HackYale, more speakers/tech-talks, YEI coding workshops, and a lot of other things point to people working on cool projects and doing what they like.
  - asianexpress 15y ago
    Ah nice! Yeah, I'm a part of PaperG which was part of the beginning of YEI (I think they say we're the first funded startup to come out of it). It's really awesome how things have grown in the last couple of years. I was pretty excited when I heard about HackYale -- something that should have been done long ago. Feel free to contact me if you have questions about startup/Yale/CS stuff
    - BlackJack 15y ago
      What's your e-mail? It would be great if there was a better network for Yale students to talk to alumni. We have that career network but search is terrible unless you're looking for people in big companies. Actually, this gives me an idea... :)
      - asianexpress 15y ago
        Haha, indeed -- the Yale alumni database is super useful, but of course, you won't have access to that quite yet. YEI is helpful for tapping part of the network, but you're right, there's no real good way to do it. You can find me at victor.cheng@paperg.com
barry-cotter 15y ago
Being a medic is no more a calling than being a lawyer is, and like being a lawyer or an accountant, many who do it hate their jobs even if they love the money. But they really love the money. Medical specialities in which "normal hours" exist include, but are not limited to, general practice, dermatology and radiology
- qq66 15y ago
  Medicine is definitely has to be more of a calling than lawyer or accountant, since the investment/payoff ratio is so much worse. You have to work much harder, in much more stressful conditions, elbows deep in someone's guts, for similar pay to a lawyer, so you have to derive a lot of benefit from the fact that you are a doctor healing people. Similarly, investment banking doesn't have to be a calling at all because the investment/payoff ratio is so good, and things like being an astronaut or a opera singer need to be "vocational" for anyone to choose them.
  - rdouble 15y ago
    The payoff in medicine might be worse from a total possible payoff standpoint, but definitely the best from a stability standpoint. A mediocre doctor can throw a dart at a map and still make $150K-200K per year. In fact, with the strange renumeration structure of modern medicine, a doctor in the sticks can make more money than a doctor in a desired suburb. Worst case scenario in medicine is working as a GP in Montana for "only" $150K a year. Worst case scenario in investment banking is you are out on your ass in 2 years with skills applicable nowhere outside of downtown Manhattan.
  - barry-cotter 15y ago
    I strongly dispute that the investment/payoff ratio is worse for M.D.s than J.D.s. Lawyers 44-173K (Imputed median 108k) General Surgeon 225K Paediatrician, General 95K Family Physician 164K For various "Physician" categories the median goes from 118 to 217K. (All salary data taken from payscale.com) This neglects the fact that most people who finish medical school get fulltime permanent jobs as doctors, while getting a J.D. is a disastrously bad idea unless you can get into a T14 school, and not actually a good idea unless you can get into a T6[0] [0]http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/ http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/ written by a law school professor http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/10/depth-and-breadth-of-misleading.html http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/10/depth-and-breadth-of-misl... evidence that newly qualified lawyers aren't getting paid much, even if they've got jobs
rdouble 15y ago
There is a bit of a calling to it, but many if not most do it for the career stability. The most desired specialty these days is dermatology, which has the best effort to paycheck ratio. It's hard to believe anyone is "called" to dermatology.

by naner 15y ago

wccrawford 15y ago

While it's not the same, my sister is now a pharmacist. Even for that, she burned out once, and almost burned out a couple more times. She was doing it for the money. Luckily, she has found she likes the job, but that wasn't her initial reason.

asianexpress 15y ago

I definitely agree with what you say about medicine. It's not always that simple though -- some people really feel parental pressure on their lives. And it's not just parental pressure, it's peer pressure too. On top of societal pressure. I attended Yale and it feels like everyone is pre-med or trying to get into finance (consulting or investment banking). You sort of feel out of the loop if you're not doing these things (I was one of the dozen computer science majors in my year). A lot of these people don't see the problems until it's too late. The perception by society is that being a doctor is a stable well-paying job -- most people don't take into consideration, like you said, all the tuition costs, and years spent in school. If you go to Yale, you're expected to achieve great things -- that's just the societal pressure. Not everyone deals with it well. So some hide in the "safety" of what society expects, rather than pursuing their dreams. These people would be too embarrassed to pursue their dreams, if it meant say, being unemployed for years or working a minimum wage job. I suppose that's more of a pride issue, but sometimes it's borne of a want to please others (while unfortunately forgetting about self) That said, she's not even at the school yet -- she'll probably change her mind when she gets there. Plenty of people do once they're given a chance to think for themselves in a new environment. But plenty of people also ending up burning out because they've pursued pre-med or finance without it really being their calling, or love.

BlackJack 15y ago
I think she's already here since the article says "Earlier this fall." But yeah, I'm a CS major at Yale too (sophomore), and I almost went the finance route. Over the summer I realized that doing something interesting >> any amount of money. A lot of kids here are pre-meds or future IB/consultants, but there are also a lot of kids who aren't and do all sorts of awesome things. This year, there's also a much bigger interest in startups. Yale Hackers, HackYale, more speakers/tech-talks, YEI coding workshops, and a lot of other things point to people working on cool projects and doing what they like.
- asianexpress 15y ago
  Ah nice! Yeah, I'm a part of PaperG which was part of the beginning of YEI (I think they say we're the first funded startup to come out of it). It's really awesome how things have grown in the last couple of years. I was pretty excited when I heard about HackYale -- something that should have been done long ago. Feel free to contact me if you have questions about startup/Yale/CS stuff
  - BlackJack 15y ago
    What's your e-mail? It would be great if there was a better network for Yale students to talk to alumni. We have that career network but search is terrible unless you're looking for people in big companies. Actually, this gives me an idea... :)
    - asianexpress 15y ago
      Haha, indeed -- the Yale alumni database is super useful, but of course, you won't have access to that quite yet. YEI is helpful for tapping part of the network, but you're right, there's no real good way to do it. You can find me at victor.cheng@paperg.com

barry-cotter 15y ago

Being a medic is no more a calling than being a lawyer is, and like being a lawyer or an accountant, many who do it hate their jobs even if they love the money. But they really love the money. Medical specialities in which "normal hours" exist include, but are not limited to, general practice, dermatology and radiology

qq66 15y ago
Medicine is definitely has to be more of a calling than lawyer or accountant, since the investment/payoff ratio is so much worse. You have to work much harder, in much more stressful conditions, elbows deep in someone's guts, for similar pay to a lawyer, so you have to derive a lot of benefit from the fact that you are a doctor healing people. Similarly, investment banking doesn't have to be a calling at all because the investment/payoff ratio is so good, and things like being an astronaut or a opera singer need to be "vocational" for anyone to choose them.
- rdouble 15y ago
  The payoff in medicine might be worse from a total possible payoff standpoint, but definitely the best from a stability standpoint. A mediocre doctor can throw a dart at a map and still make $150K-200K per year. In fact, with the strange renumeration structure of modern medicine, a doctor in the sticks can make more money than a doctor in a desired suburb. Worst case scenario in medicine is working as a GP in Montana for "only" $150K a year. Worst case scenario in investment banking is you are out on your ass in 2 years with skills applicable nowhere outside of downtown Manhattan.
- barry-cotter 15y ago
  I strongly dispute that the investment/payoff ratio is worse for M.D.s than J.D.s. Lawyers 44-173K (Imputed median 108k) General Surgeon 225K Paediatrician, General 95K Family Physician 164K For various "Physician" categories the median goes from 118 to 217K. (All salary data taken from payscale.com) This neglects the fact that most people who finish medical school get fulltime permanent jobs as doctors, while getting a J.D. is a disastrously bad idea unless you can get into a T14 school, and not actually a good idea unless you can get into a T6[0] [0]http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/ http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/ written by a law school professor http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/10/depth-and-breadth-of-misleading.html http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/10/depth-and-breadth-of-misl... evidence that newly qualified lawyers aren't getting paid much, even if they've got jobs

rdouble 15y ago

There is a bit of a calling to it, but many if not most do it for the career stability. The most desired specialty these days is dermatology, which has the best effort to paycheck ratio. It's hard to believe anyone is "called" to dermatology.