4 ms·

what about everything else? high sodium diet = - higher chance to develop kidney stones - increase in blood pressure - hurt the liver

nabla9 5y ago
Nothing. Study: States specific conditions and statistics. Hacker News reaction post: Interprets the title as maximalists statement. These studies are tiny information nuggets useful for researchers working in the field. Nobody should change their view based on studies posted here.
- h2odragon 5y ago
  Wait'll the news gets a hold of it. The same study will probably generate "low salt diets cause heart attacks" and "skipping salt saves lives" news headlines.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Most people here don't fit into the target group (ambulatory heart failure) being studied anyways.
Mikeb85 5y ago
And a no sodium diet = death. It's a mineral required for human life, it's only in our decadent modern society that too much has ever been an issue. Too much is bad but heavily restricting it isn't as good as people think.
- qwytw 5y ago
  Before refrigeration salt was the most popular method of preserving food, so do we really consume that much more of it compared to people who lived in the past?
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Much of the diet would've still been grains, tubers, dried beans, etc.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    Probably because it's in every processed food. Back then you wouldn't be directly salting every meal because salt was expensive, you'd add salted meat, a sauce that contains salt, etc... to a stew with vegetables...
    - robonerd 5y ago
      Salt was expensive.. but in the quantities we shake onto our food today, the price was pretty much negligible. Salt was considered expensive because they used a lot of salt when preserving food. For reference, US Army regulations during the American Civil War called for soldiers to be given 3 pounds 12 ounces (1.7 kg) of salt every 100 days. Sprinkling a little bit of that onto a meal would not exactly have been opulent. Of course, those ration regulations were aspirational and soldiers were lucky to get what they were owed, but it gives an idea of how much salt people considered reasonable.
  - robonerd 5y ago
    The first step in preparation of salt preserved foods was often to wash away as much salt as possible. For instance, by soaking your salted pork in fresh water to leach out as much of the salt as you could. Even so, they surely ate a lot of salt.
- jodrellblank 5y ago
  "Of course too much is bad, too much of anything is bad, that's what 'too much' means." - Fry and Laurie.
giantg2 5y ago
Depends on your definition of high. They seem to be comparing normal higher sodium diet to a low sodium diet. So high seems to be relative. At a certain level sodium does become excessive and can lead to high blood pressure and kidney issues (I believe the liver issues are blood pressure related). This is basically due to the kidneys not being able to process the extra minerals. As long as you stay within the kidneys limits of function, then you're fine.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
chefandy 5y ago
Hrm... I think missed where the study advocated for a high-sodium diet.
xyzzy21 5y ago
In general, if you have super high sodium intake, you also have other major problems with food, weight and exercise that are far more likely the primary causes of CVD. For example, you are usually eating a ton of processed foods with high fat and high carbs in calorie counts in an unhealthy range.
- rabuse 5y ago
  High fat and carbs are not the issue, it's solely caloric intake that's the issue. Of course, anything in excess is bad, but it's the caloric surplus that is the major cause of chronic illness.
  - meristohm 5y ago
    Do we fully process everything we eat? What role does insulin have in how we process food, and how is insulin controlled? I generally agree that too many of us eat too much for our own good and that of other life on the planet, but to reduce the issue solely to caloric intake seems off. From my own experience, timing and order of what I eat matters more than total calories. If I eat a morning meal until I'm full, well that was fun but now I'm tired, and the day just started. If I start the evening meal with bread or a handful of chocolate chips and eat the greens and veggies and fruits last, I feel different than if I do it the other way around, a worse-different. I suspect there are reasons (some for health, some for economics) that multi-course meals include a salad early on. Since I'm not couting calories, and I am eating until I'm full (regardless of how many meals I eat in a day, which is part of my problem, and why I spend more time fasting these days), I don't actually know what the calorie difference would be if I mix up the order, but I've settled on starting with the plants and fats, then proteins, then carbs and that feels good. On days (thankfully not habitual, now) when I snacked all day, interspersed with full meals, I had acid reflux, low energy, was irritable, had teeth problems, and gained unwanted bodyfat. Lump all those calories into two full meals (a lunch and dinner, say) and I felt better. Bring it down to one meal a day and I feel better yet (and, to your point, I'm likely consuming fewer calories, so win-win?). If I was more physically active I might do it differently.
Symmetry 5y ago
I thought that it was changes in salt intake that caused high blood pressure rather than high levels of salt intake. That is, if you increase your daily salt intake by 500 mg or whatever you'll see you blood pressure go up immediately but converge back to its normal level over the course of a month as homeostasis does its thing.

nabla9 5y ago

Nothing. Study: States specific conditions and statistics. Hacker News reaction post: Interprets the title as maximalists statement. These studies are tiny information nuggets useful for researchers working in the field. Nobody should change their view based on studies posted here.

h2odragon 5y ago
Wait'll the news gets a hold of it. The same study will probably generate "low salt diets cause heart attacks" and "skipping salt saves lives" news headlines.
giantg2 5y ago
Most people here don't fit into the target group (ambulatory heart failure) being studied anyways.

Mikeb85 5y ago

And a no sodium diet = death. It's a mineral required for human life, it's only in our decadent modern society that too much has ever been an issue. Too much is bad but heavily restricting it isn't as good as people think.

qwytw 5y ago
Before refrigeration salt was the most popular method of preserving food, so do we really consume that much more of it compared to people who lived in the past?
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Much of the diet would've still been grains, tubers, dried beans, etc.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  Probably because it's in every processed food. Back then you wouldn't be directly salting every meal because salt was expensive, you'd add salted meat, a sauce that contains salt, etc... to a stew with vegetables...
  - robonerd 5y ago
    Salt was expensive.. but in the quantities we shake onto our food today, the price was pretty much negligible. Salt was considered expensive because they used a lot of salt when preserving food. For reference, US Army regulations during the American Civil War called for soldiers to be given 3 pounds 12 ounces (1.7 kg) of salt every 100 days. Sprinkling a little bit of that onto a meal would not exactly have been opulent. Of course, those ration regulations were aspirational and soldiers were lucky to get what they were owed, but it gives an idea of how much salt people considered reasonable.
- robonerd 5y ago
  The first step in preparation of salt preserved foods was often to wash away as much salt as possible. For instance, by soaking your salted pork in fresh water to leach out as much of the salt as you could. Even so, they surely ate a lot of salt.
jodrellblank 5y ago
"Of course too much is bad, too much of anything is bad, that's what 'too much' means." - Fry and Laurie.

giantg2 5y ago

Depends on your definition of high. They seem to be comparing normal higher sodium diet to a low sodium diet. So high seems to be relative. At a certain level sodium does become excessive and can lead to high blood pressure and kidney issues (I believe the liver issues are blood pressure related). This is basically due to the kidneys not being able to process the extra minerals. As long as you stay within the kidneys limits of function, then you're fine.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

chefandy 5y ago

Hrm... I think missed where the study advocated for a high-sodium diet.

xyzzy21 5y ago

In general, if you have super high sodium intake, you also have other major problems with food, weight and exercise that are far more likely the primary causes of CVD. For example, you are usually eating a ton of processed foods with high fat and high carbs in calorie counts in an unhealthy range.

rabuse 5y ago
High fat and carbs are not the issue, it's solely caloric intake that's the issue. Of course, anything in excess is bad, but it's the caloric surplus that is the major cause of chronic illness.
- meristohm 5y ago
  Do we fully process everything we eat? What role does insulin have in how we process food, and how is insulin controlled? I generally agree that too many of us eat too much for our own good and that of other life on the planet, but to reduce the issue solely to caloric intake seems off. From my own experience, timing and order of what I eat matters more than total calories. If I eat a morning meal until I'm full, well that was fun but now I'm tired, and the day just started. If I start the evening meal with bread or a handful of chocolate chips and eat the greens and veggies and fruits last, I feel different than if I do it the other way around, a worse-different. I suspect there are reasons (some for health, some for economics) that multi-course meals include a salad early on. Since I'm not couting calories, and I am eating until I'm full (regardless of how many meals I eat in a day, which is part of my problem, and why I spend more time fasting these days), I don't actually know what the calorie difference would be if I mix up the order, but I've settled on starting with the plants and fats, then proteins, then carbs and that feels good. On days (thankfully not habitual, now) when I snacked all day, interspersed with full meals, I had acid reflux, low energy, was irritable, had teeth problems, and gained unwanted bodyfat. Lump all those calories into two full meals (a lunch and dinner, say) and I felt better. Bring it down to one meal a day and I feel better yet (and, to your point, I'm likely consuming fewer calories, so win-win?). If I was more physically active I might do it differently.

Symmetry 5y ago

I thought that it was changes in salt intake that caused high blood pressure rather than high levels of salt intake. That is, if you increase your daily salt intake by 500 mg or whatever you'll see you blood pressure go up immediately but converge back to its normal level over the course of a month as homeostasis does its thing.