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Ask HN: Tesla Motors should be working on mass transport/public transport

It is not sustainable to keep powering cheap personal vehicles. The solution is Tesla/EV + Boring Company. Change my mind?

jleyank 5y ago
Not sexy, no dopamine hit. Might not be enough of a return as these are markets that are not popular nor catering to pent up demand. There has been a form of self-driving and/or electrified mass or public transit for decades. They have many names: trains, trams, …
- jelliclesfarm 5y ago
  Privatize public transport. BART (speaking for Bay Area) sucks.
  - 7373737373 5y ago
    Why privatize a medium that doesn't support competition well?
    - jleyank 5y ago
      They privatized public transit in the us in the 50’s and 60’s. It’s called cars. Is there any successful public transit outside of a few cities in the us? Boston, nyc, are there others (as I’ve no experience outside these two)? Conversely, it’s pretty functional in Europe and ok in the two big cities in eastern canada.
      - jelliclesfarm 5y ago
        Personal transportation vehicles can be improved. Excessive cars has led to traffic jams and air pollution...infrastructure hasn’t improved over decades. I am only speaking of California. I am not aware how it is in the RoW or elsewhere in America.
vagrantJin 5y ago
Putting aside that trains already pretty much run on eletricity and some city buses are already hybrids... I'm more surprised at your ignoring highly technically capable firms that have decades of experience and practical know how when it comes to mass transit "people movers". Why did you specifically choose Tesla Motors? It's neither a small player startup nor is it an experienced big fish. Why Tesla?
- jelliclesfarm 5y ago
  Boring Company. Can go underground. There has to be intra city and inter city network. We still need parking lots and have to deal with traffic jams. + Having multiple 20-50 seater frequent round trips. There is lots of room for improvement ..esp with using AI and data. It will never get funded by state run outfits. What I liked about Tesla Motors is that they used every customer’s trips and every car collected data for Tesla..blurring the line between being an automobile company and a data company…it is such a simple and effective solution. They turned customers into part time employees who paid from their pockets to do Tesla’s job. Moved things fast. Everyone wins. If ever there was a collective crowd sourced hack. Meanwhile cruise et al took a different (imo, not very elegant) approach.
  - vagrantJin 5y ago
    > Boring Company. Can go underground I hope you aren't serious. Maybe a quick shill for TSLA? Perhaps I missed the joke? I seem to recall a underground infrastructure that can move thousands of people per hour at great speeds in the city. I think a sandwich company is named after it. I forget what its called. > used every customer’s trips and every car collected data for Tesla..blurring the line between being an automobile company and a data company…it is such a simple and effective solution. Ok. There's definitely a joke in there somewhere. Aside from known problems like route optimization, what would a public transit system need Tesla-like data collection for? What would the AI be used for specifically? Sure, companies like Comma.ai are doing some interesting self-driving machine learning modelling stuff but I am curious as to why you think public transit would need that level of data collection...ofcourse going on the assumption that they don't collect any data at all because reasons. Ofcourse leaving aside that Tesla's innovation is energy storage packaged in a neat looking sports car. 10/10 would make a great powersource is a dystopian movie.
tldrthelaw 5y ago
I don't get the fawning over Tesla -- their cars aren't that great, they aren't a great tech company ... they're valued highly and that's cool for their shareholders I guess but why would we want them in charge of any public infrastructure?
- jelliclesfarm 5y ago
  I had hopes for ZooX, but they kinda disappeared. Was promising and then became dodgy. I can’t think of any other company except Tesla and they have more beta testers than any other company for FSD. One reason I think the govt cannot be trusted with public infrastructure (again, California centric) is HSR. ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail ) After two decades it still stalls with them working on the budget that has gone from 30 billion to 100 billion. No one in CA trusts the govt anymore for development of public infrastructure. But who else? I hardly think Ford would try to bid for it.
- VirusNewbie 5y ago
  Can you name a car for the price of the model 3 that you think is better than the model 3? I was a huge fan of BMWs and was ready to get one, and then I drove a Tesla, and really nothing in the price range compared. The tesla is far from perfect, its suspension isn't as tight or tuned as most sport package BMWs, but everything else is much better for the price imo. For ~45k can you get an electric car that has similar acceleration, over the air updates, autopilot like capabilities, ease of charging and comfort?
  - tldrthelaw 5y ago
    Well first, isn't it more like $52k now with base model + autopilot? If you draw the constraints close enough to the Model 3, you aren't going to find anything that beats the Model 3. I'd argue acceleration doesn't really belong on that list for most folks -- if it does for you, then go Model 3. Same goes for over the air updates. Most people just want an electric car to behave like an ICE car but not need 1) gas and 2) as much maintenance. Beyond that, I reckon the pertinent bit when deciding if they'd get this hypothetical contract to build public infrastructure wouldn't be whether a single vehicle is now a good car in its class but how we got here. They have been bedeviled with build quality problems throughout their time -- as late as 2020 you had the weird wooden pieces and tape holding HVAC components together. That doesn't bode well for their crack at public infrastructure. They weren't profitable until recently and nearly went bankrupt. Not great. Their placement of service centers leaves a lot to be desired. Rolling out geographically is something they'll need to figure out for the project. New models are continually met with production delays. Not ideal. So in sum depending on what you want I think the Leaf is a better entry level option, despite ChaDeMo, but it doesn't compete against anything because Tesla doesn't have anything you could call entry level. The Ioniq or Mach-E (despite gross Ford) are better midsize options. If you want performance, go Taycan. I'm not saying the Tesla is a terrible car by any means, I just think its overvalued as against what it provides and what the company is actually achieving. Being first is worth something, and I'm sure they'll be around for a long time because of it. I still don't want them in charge of our public infrastructure. P.S. Also the Boring Company seems dead after having given up on the hyper loop idea and slowly backpedaled.

It is not sustainable to keep powering cheap personal vehicles. The solution is Tesla/EV + Boring Company. Change my mind?

jleyank 5y ago

Not sexy, no dopamine hit. Might not be enough of a return as these are markets that are not popular nor catering to pent up demand. There has been a form of self-driving and/or electrified mass or public transit for decades. They have many names: trains, trams, …

jelliclesfarm 5y ago
Privatize public transport. BART (speaking for Bay Area) sucks.
- 7373737373 5y ago
  Why privatize a medium that doesn't support competition well?
  - jleyank 5y ago
    They privatized public transit in the us in the 50’s and 60’s. It’s called cars. Is there any successful public transit outside of a few cities in the us? Boston, nyc, are there others (as I’ve no experience outside these two)? Conversely, it’s pretty functional in Europe and ok in the two big cities in eastern canada.
    - jelliclesfarm 5y ago
      Personal transportation vehicles can be improved. Excessive cars has led to traffic jams and air pollution...infrastructure hasn’t improved over decades. I am only speaking of California. I am not aware how it is in the RoW or elsewhere in America.

vagrantJin 5y ago

Putting aside that trains already pretty much run on eletricity and some city buses are already hybrids... I'm more surprised at your ignoring highly technically capable firms that have decades of experience and practical know how when it comes to mass transit "people movers". Why did you specifically choose Tesla Motors? It's neither a small player startup nor is it an experienced big fish. Why Tesla?

jelliclesfarm 5y ago
Boring Company. Can go underground. There has to be intra city and inter city network. We still need parking lots and have to deal with traffic jams. + Having multiple 20-50 seater frequent round trips. There is lots of room for improvement ..esp with using AI and data. It will never get funded by state run outfits. What I liked about Tesla Motors is that they used every customer’s trips and every car collected data for Tesla..blurring the line between being an automobile company and a data company…it is such a simple and effective solution. They turned customers into part time employees who paid from their pockets to do Tesla’s job. Moved things fast. Everyone wins. If ever there was a collective crowd sourced hack. Meanwhile cruise et al took a different (imo, not very elegant) approach.
- vagrantJin 5y ago
  > Boring Company. Can go underground I hope you aren't serious. Maybe a quick shill for TSLA? Perhaps I missed the joke? I seem to recall a underground infrastructure that can move thousands of people per hour at great speeds in the city. I think a sandwich company is named after it. I forget what its called. > used every customer’s trips and every car collected data for Tesla..blurring the line between being an automobile company and a data company…it is such a simple and effective solution. Ok. There's definitely a joke in there somewhere. Aside from known problems like route optimization, what would a public transit system need Tesla-like data collection for? What would the AI be used for specifically? Sure, companies like Comma.ai are doing some interesting self-driving machine learning modelling stuff but I am curious as to why you think public transit would need that level of data collection...ofcourse going on the assumption that they don't collect any data at all because reasons. Ofcourse leaving aside that Tesla's innovation is energy storage packaged in a neat looking sports car. 10/10 would make a great powersource is a dystopian movie.

tldrthelaw 5y ago

I don't get the fawning over Tesla -- their cars aren't that great, they aren't a great tech company ... they're valued highly and that's cool for their shareholders I guess but why would we want them in charge of any public infrastructure?

jelliclesfarm 5y ago
I had hopes for ZooX, but they kinda disappeared. Was promising and then became dodgy. I can’t think of any other company except Tesla and they have more beta testers than any other company for FSD. One reason I think the govt cannot be trusted with public infrastructure (again, California centric) is HSR. ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail ) After two decades it still stalls with them working on the budget that has gone from 30 billion to 100 billion. No one in CA trusts the govt anymore for development of public infrastructure. But who else? I hardly think Ford would try to bid for it.
VirusNewbie 5y ago
Can you name a car for the price of the model 3 that you think is better than the model 3? I was a huge fan of BMWs and was ready to get one, and then I drove a Tesla, and really nothing in the price range compared. The tesla is far from perfect, its suspension isn't as tight or tuned as most sport package BMWs, but everything else is much better for the price imo. For ~45k can you get an electric car that has similar acceleration, over the air updates, autopilot like capabilities, ease of charging and comfort?
- tldrthelaw 5y ago
  Well first, isn't it more like $52k now with base model + autopilot? If you draw the constraints close enough to the Model 3, you aren't going to find anything that beats the Model 3. I'd argue acceleration doesn't really belong on that list for most folks -- if it does for you, then go Model 3. Same goes for over the air updates. Most people just want an electric car to behave like an ICE car but not need 1) gas and 2) as much maintenance. Beyond that, I reckon the pertinent bit when deciding if they'd get this hypothetical contract to build public infrastructure wouldn't be whether a single vehicle is now a good car in its class but how we got here. They have been bedeviled with build quality problems throughout their time -- as late as 2020 you had the weird wooden pieces and tape holding HVAC components together. That doesn't bode well for their crack at public infrastructure. They weren't profitable until recently and nearly went bankrupt. Not great. Their placement of service centers leaves a lot to be desired. Rolling out geographically is something they'll need to figure out for the project. New models are continually met with production delays. Not ideal. So in sum depending on what you want I think the Leaf is a better entry level option, despite ChaDeMo, but it doesn't compete against anything because Tesla doesn't have anything you could call entry level. The Ioniq or Mach-E (despite gross Ford) are better midsize options. If you want performance, go Taycan. I'm not saying the Tesla is a terrible car by any means, I just think its overvalued as against what it provides and what the company is actually achieving. Being first is worth something, and I'm sure they'll be around for a long time because of it. I still don't want them in charge of our public infrastructure. P.S. Also the Boring Company seems dead after having given up on the hyper loop idea and slowly backpedaled.