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> Whisky is distilled to around 70% alcohol by volume (vol-%) then diluted to about 40 vol-% Might be true for the vast majority of whisky, but once you start

by tehsuk 4y ago

> Whisky is distilled to around 70% alcohol by volume (vol-%) then diluted to about 40 vol-% Might be true for the vast majority of whisky, but once you start to hit enthusiast territory, there's whisky from 40% to above 60% ABV. Some of those (including but not limited to "cask strength" bottlings) are certainly made for diluting further. Or rather, to give the customer the option to dilute to taste. > Before bottling, the whisky is diluted to around 40 vol-% by the addition of water, which changes the taste significantly. Whisky enthusiasts often also add a few drops of water to the spirit before drinking in order to further enhance the taste. I'd say that's simply not true, at least for my "enthusiast" circles. 40% whiskies are becoming increasingly rare in those groups.

Semaphor 4y ago
> I'd say that's simply not true, at least for my "enthusiast" circles. 40% whiskies are becoming increasingly rare in those groups. 40% is still a thing in my group, but it’s rare that water gets added, that’s only done with higher strengths.
- tehsuk 4y ago
  > 40% is still a thing in my group, but it’s rare that water gets added, that’s only done with higher strengths. That's kind of my point too, I failed to express it well enough. The paper author asserts that 40% whiskies are diluted by enthusiast, and that statement can be challenged in multiple ways! Either by not going for 40% whiskies, or by going for them and not diluting them.
  - rendall 4y ago
    No true Scotch whisky
a_c 4y ago
There is obvious difference for a cask strength whiskey and a 40% ABV one. But I doubt if people can reliably tell a whisky is diluted with a few drops of water in a double blind taste test. I tried and failed. IMO a lot of tasting has to do with the ritual
- teruakohatu 4y ago
  If you can't taste it then you are already ahead! If the few drops you add, which are free, taste the same as the expensive whisky, you are left with more tasty whisky to drink.
aardvark179 4y ago
I add a little water even to non cask strength whisky, and it’s a very common practice. It’s why Scottish pubs have small water jugs on the bar. It’s common among a lot of other whisky drinkers I know so I think ‘often’ is entirely reasonable here.
alkonaut 4y ago
> > Whisky is distilled to around 70% alcohol by volume (vol-%) then diluted to bout 40 vol-% > Might be true for the vast majority of whisky, but once you start to hit enthusiast territory, there's whisky from 40% to above 60% ABV. I'd say the statement is mostly true depending on how you read "diluted". Whiskey is distilled and casked at a high % abv (e.g. 60-70) and then diluted before drinking to something less than that, e.g. 45%, 40% or lower. That dilution might take place before bottling, after bottling, or a combination of both. But (hopefully) very few people make the mistake of drinking 70% alcohol without diluting it first. That the dilution was left to the consumer rather than happens in the factory is just a detail. It doesn't really change how whisky is distilled (70%) and later consumed (~40% or something higher but still hopefully not 70...).
- tehsuk 4y ago
  > That dilution might take place before bottling, after bottling, or a combination of both The paper states "Before bottling, the whisky is diluted to around 40 vol-% by the addition of water", which is clearly not always true, certainly not in nerdy circles. > Whiskey is distilled and casked at a high % abv (e.g. 60-70) and then diluted before drinking to something less than that, e.g. 45%, 40% or lower. That dilution might take place before bottling, after bottling, or a combination of both. But (hopefully) very few people make the mistake of drinking 70% alcohol without diluting it first. That the dilution was left to the consumer rather than happens in the factory is just a detail. It doesn't really change how whisky is distilled (70%) and later consumed (~40% or something higher but still hopefully not 70...). I'd say that most enthusiast do not dilute most of their cask strength whisky down to anywhere near 40% ABV if they can help it. My argument is that the paper 's generalization is _very_ broad.
  - alkonaut 4y ago
    > The paper states "Before bottling, the whisky is diluted to around 40 vol-% by the addition of water", which is clearly not always true, Ah, yes with that qualification then it's certainly not true. Cask strength isn't even that rare any more. > I'd say that most enthusiast do not dilute most of their cask strength whisky down to anywhere near 40% ABV if they can help it. I have heard of people who add a drop of water to a 70% whisky but I can't say I understand why. Perhaps it's individual but I just find I get a numb feeling in my mouth with anything 60% or above, which simply feels like it lessens the flavors.
teh_klev 4y ago
> I'd say that's simply not true, at least for my "enthusiast" circles. 40% whiskies are becoming increasingly rare in those groups. Go into pretty much any supermarket (certainly in the UK) and 40% ABV is universal strength. But you're right, in enthusiast groups 46% ABV is the norm, however you're in a minority of whisky drinkers. The bulk of Scotch whisky production, both single malt and blended, is aimed at filling supermarket shelves because that's where the highest volumes of sales and profit come from. These products are not aimed at enthusiasts. I'd recommend this fella if you fancy listening to a decent rant or two about the state of the Scotch whisky industry: https://www.youtube.com/c/ralfystuff/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/ralfystuff/videos
- tehsuk 4y ago
  > The bulk of Scotch whisky production, both single malt and blended, is aimed at filling supermarket shelves because that's where the highest volumes of sales and profit come from. These products are not aimed at enthusiasts. Yes. The paper, however, implies that even enthusiasts dilute their whisky further below 40% ABV. For a nerdy article, that's missing most of the "enthusiast" market segment.
  - smcl 4y ago
    It is still common to add a couple of drops even if it's already at 40%
  - hnlmorg 4y ago
    Many enthusiasts do, like myself. There are very few whiskies I don't prefer with a tiny drop of tap water. It really depends on the whisky.
- smcl 4y ago
  Heh ok time for my Ralfy rant. Ralfy is ... odd. He'll argue about the price of whisky being too high one day then another that supermarkets are lowballing the price and ruining its prestige. He speaks very authoritatively on many subjects but occasionally you'll catch him talking about a topic you're familiar with and you realise he's just talking shite. An example being his review of Bulleit Bourbon where he waxed poetic about it being this little authentic Bourbon, or something along those lines, then obviously he got called out and followed it up with a rant about how he had been deceived by Bulleit when really he should've just known better (the issue is that Bulleit use a fairly common model of having a large distillery in Indiana called MGP to make their whiskey, which you then bottle + brand yourself. It's not dishonest or sinister, but it's certainly not some cosy family business). At times it's quite painful to watch him glassy-eyed, half-drunk, sorta slurring and struggling for words. If you've spent any length of time in Scottish pubs you'll have met guys like Ralfy and they're tbh quite annoying :D
hnlmorg 4y ago
"Cask strength" literally means it hasn't been substantially diluted from the cask. ie it's a higher percentage than you're typical bottled whisky. And as you stated yourself, the expectation is that the drinker would often dilute to taste themselves. So you're not actually disagreeing with the statement you're attempting to rebuttal. > I'd say that's simply not true, at least for my "enthusiast" circles. 40% whiskies are becoming increasingly rare in those groups. "rare" is hugely overstating things, even for the "enthusiast" market.
- tehsuk 4y ago
  The paper goes on with "Before bottling, the whisky is diluted to around 40 vol-% by the addition of water". It wasn't in my quote, but the paper completely disregards whisky bottled at higher ABV%. Something I think is important when talking about dilution. > "rare" is hugely overstating things, even for the "enthusiast" market. I said "becoming increasingly rare", which I stand by.
  - hnlmorg 4y ago
    > The paper goes on with "Before bottling, the whisky is diluted to around 40 vol-% by the addition of water". It wasn't in my quote, but the paper completely disregards whisky bottled at higher ABV%. Something I think is important when talking about dilution. But my point is that whisky that is bottled at significantly higher proofs (remember the article says "about 40%" (emphasis mine) thus acknowledging there is already room for variation) are sold as "cask strength". This is a point you also make yourself. Thus the article is correct in the general sense. > I said "becoming increasingly rare", which I stand by. Which still contains the term "rare" which is a gross exaggeration of the actual market (and which was the point I was making and stand by). I'm a massive whisky enthusiast too but I think you're analysis here is, at best, unfair. At worst you simply come off as if you're trying to flex some kind of intellectual superiority by arguing pedantic nitpicks. Sure the study is written to cover the lowest common denominator of whiskies but the key here is that it's still the common denominator and what you're arguing are lesser common edge cases. The study doesn't claim that edge cases doesn't exist even if it's only interested in the most common cases.

by tehsuk 4y ago

Semaphor 4y ago

> I'd say that's simply not true, at least for my "enthusiast" circles. 40% whiskies are becoming increasingly rare in those groups. 40% is still a thing in my group, but it’s rare that water gets added, that’s only done with higher strengths.

tehsuk 4y ago
> 40% is still a thing in my group, but it’s rare that water gets added, that’s only done with higher strengths. That's kind of my point too, I failed to express it well enough. The paper author asserts that 40% whiskies are diluted by enthusiast, and that statement can be challenged in multiple ways! Either by not going for 40% whiskies, or by going for them and not diluting them.
- rendall 4y ago
  No true Scotch whisky

a_c 4y ago

There is obvious difference for a cask strength whiskey and a 40% ABV one. But I doubt if people can reliably tell a whisky is diluted with a few drops of water in a double blind taste test. I tried and failed. IMO a lot of tasting has to do with the ritual

teruakohatu 4y ago
If you can't taste it then you are already ahead! If the few drops you add, which are free, taste the same as the expensive whisky, you are left with more tasty whisky to drink.

aardvark179 4y ago

I add a little water even to non cask strength whisky, and it’s a very common practice. It’s why Scottish pubs have small water jugs on the bar. It’s common among a lot of other whisky drinkers I know so I think ‘often’ is entirely reasonable here.

alkonaut 4y ago

> > Whisky is distilled to around 70% alcohol by volume (vol-%) then diluted to bout 40 vol-% > Might be true for the vast majority of whisky, but once you start to hit enthusiast territory, there's whisky from 40% to above 60% ABV. I'd say the statement is mostly true depending on how you read "diluted". Whiskey is distilled and casked at a high % abv (e.g. 60-70) and then diluted before drinking to something less than that, e.g. 45%, 40% or lower. That dilution might take place before bottling, after bottling, or a combination of both. But (hopefully) very few people make the mistake of drinking 70% alcohol without diluting it first. That the dilution was left to the consumer rather than happens in the factory is just a detail. It doesn't really change how whisky is distilled (70%) and later consumed (~40% or something higher but still hopefully not 70...).

tehsuk 4y ago
> That dilution might take place before bottling, after bottling, or a combination of both The paper states "Before bottling, the whisky is diluted to around 40 vol-% by the addition of water", which is clearly not always true, certainly not in nerdy circles. > Whiskey is distilled and casked at a high % abv (e.g. 60-70) and then diluted before drinking to something less than that, e.g. 45%, 40% or lower. That dilution might take place before bottling, after bottling, or a combination of both. But (hopefully) very few people make the mistake of drinking 70% alcohol without diluting it first. That the dilution was left to the consumer rather than happens in the factory is just a detail. It doesn't really change how whisky is distilled (70%) and later consumed (~40% or something higher but still hopefully not 70...). I'd say that most enthusiast do not dilute most of their cask strength whisky down to anywhere near 40% ABV if they can help it. My argument is that the paper 's generalization is _very_ broad.
- alkonaut 4y ago
  > The paper states "Before bottling, the whisky is diluted to around 40 vol-% by the addition of water", which is clearly not always true, Ah, yes with that qualification then it's certainly not true. Cask strength isn't even that rare any more. > I'd say that most enthusiast do not dilute most of their cask strength whisky down to anywhere near 40% ABV if they can help it. I have heard of people who add a drop of water to a 70% whisky but I can't say I understand why. Perhaps it's individual but I just find I get a numb feeling in my mouth with anything 60% or above, which simply feels like it lessens the flavors.

teh_klev 4y ago

> I'd say that's simply not true, at least for my "enthusiast" circles. 40% whiskies are becoming increasingly rare in those groups. Go into pretty much any supermarket (certainly in the UK) and 40% ABV is universal strength. But you're right, in enthusiast groups 46% ABV is the norm, however you're in a minority of whisky drinkers. The bulk of Scotch whisky production, both single malt and blended, is aimed at filling supermarket shelves because that's where the highest volumes of sales and profit come from. These products are not aimed at enthusiasts. I'd recommend this fella if you fancy listening to a decent rant or two about the state of the Scotch whisky industry: https://www.youtube.com/c/ralfystuff/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/ralfystuff/videos

tehsuk 4y ago
> The bulk of Scotch whisky production, both single malt and blended, is aimed at filling supermarket shelves because that's where the highest volumes of sales and profit come from. These products are not aimed at enthusiasts. Yes. The paper, however, implies that even enthusiasts dilute their whisky further below 40% ABV. For a nerdy article, that's missing most of the "enthusiast" market segment.
- smcl 4y ago
  It is still common to add a couple of drops even if it's already at 40%
- hnlmorg 4y ago
  Many enthusiasts do, like myself. There are very few whiskies I don't prefer with a tiny drop of tap water. It really depends on the whisky.
smcl 4y ago
Heh ok time for my Ralfy rant. Ralfy is ... odd. He'll argue about the price of whisky being too high one day then another that supermarkets are lowballing the price and ruining its prestige. He speaks very authoritatively on many subjects but occasionally you'll catch him talking about a topic you're familiar with and you realise he's just talking shite. An example being his review of Bulleit Bourbon where he waxed poetic about it being this little authentic Bourbon, or something along those lines, then obviously he got called out and followed it up with a rant about how he had been deceived by Bulleit when really he should've just known better (the issue is that Bulleit use a fairly common model of having a large distillery in Indiana called MGP to make their whiskey, which you then bottle + brand yourself. It's not dishonest or sinister, but it's certainly not some cosy family business). At times it's quite painful to watch him glassy-eyed, half-drunk, sorta slurring and struggling for words. If you've spent any length of time in Scottish pubs you'll have met guys like Ralfy and they're tbh quite annoying :D

hnlmorg 4y ago

"Cask strength" literally means it hasn't been substantially diluted from the cask. ie it's a higher percentage than you're typical bottled whisky. And as you stated yourself, the expectation is that the drinker would often dilute to taste themselves. So you're not actually disagreeing with the statement you're attempting to rebuttal. > I'd say that's simply not true, at least for my "enthusiast" circles. 40% whiskies are becoming increasingly rare in those groups. "rare" is hugely overstating things, even for the "enthusiast" market.

tehsuk 4y ago
The paper goes on with "Before bottling, the whisky is diluted to around 40 vol-% by the addition of water". It wasn't in my quote, but the paper completely disregards whisky bottled at higher ABV%. Something I think is important when talking about dilution. > "rare" is hugely overstating things, even for the "enthusiast" market. I said "becoming increasingly rare", which I stand by.
- hnlmorg 4y ago
  > The paper goes on with "Before bottling, the whisky is diluted to around 40 vol-% by the addition of water". It wasn't in my quote, but the paper completely disregards whisky bottled at higher ABV%. Something I think is important when talking about dilution. But my point is that whisky that is bottled at significantly higher proofs (remember the article says "about 40%" (emphasis mine) thus acknowledging there is already room for variation) are sold as "cask strength". This is a point you also make yourself. Thus the article is correct in the general sense. > I said "becoming increasingly rare", which I stand by. Which still contains the term "rare" which is a gross exaggeration of the actual market (and which was the point I was making and stand by). I'm a massive whisky enthusiast too but I think you're analysis here is, at best, unfair. At worst you simply come off as if you're trying to flex some kind of intellectual superiority by arguing pedantic nitpicks. Sure the study is written to cover the lowest common denominator of whiskies but the key here is that it's still the common denominator and what you're arguing are lesser common edge cases. The study doesn't claim that edge cases doesn't exist even if it's only interested in the most common cases.