6 ms·

notice how many specify "32 bit". this is a joke for engineering laptops that need more RAM. I have a T510, which is listed. it definitely doesn't work out of

by munin 15y ago

notice how many specify "32 bit". this is a joke for engineering laptops that need more RAM. I have a T510, which is listed. it definitely doesn't work out of the box, and not all of the hardware (nvidia optimus for example) is fully supported.

samstokes 15y ago
What problems have you had with your T510? I have the T510 running 64-bit Ubuntu - it worked fine out of the box. I think the only thing I had to tweak was the auto-idle-brightness-reduction. Even dual monitor has worked just fine. Admittedly this is 10.04 - I haven't tried the newer versions on it yet - and I didn't try to get Optimus working. I do wonder why they're so careful about specifying 32-bit - I guess driver availability. Hopefully this shows Canonical and/or the laptop makers themselves are putting a higher priority on compatibility, so maybe 64-bit support won't be far off.
- munin 15y ago
  dual monitors where both monitors are the DVI docking station? fine dual monitors where one is the onboard LCD and the other is a monitor connected via the VGA port? fine three monitors, where one of them is the onboard LCD and the other two come from the DVI ports? nope! (this works in windows). going from windows to ubuntu, there are three big things that i ran into: no 3 monitor support, less battery life, and wifi issues (google for ubuntu iwlagn, all kinds of awesome ways to get it work like iwconfig wlan0 mode 1M, welcome to 2001, and turning off g/n support) also, suspend/resume has a 1/10 chance of not resuming. this is worse than window's 0/10 chances of not resuming (every. time. i pulled my windows T510 out of my bag and opened it, it was there. with linux? i cross my fingers)
  - samstokes 15y ago
    (Not trying to dispute your experience, just presenting my own for balance, for the benefit of anyone trying to decide whether Ubuntu on a Thinkpad is viable.) * Triple monitor: like you, I couldn't get this to work. * Battery life: it's not been as good as in Windows, but it's been very acceptable if I tweak a bit using powertop. (Of course, I'd like it to be as good as in Windows.) * Wifi: I have had no issues whatsoever; this worked perfectly out of the box, even with WPA, G/N, etc. * suspend/resume: I've never had a problem with resume. About 1 time in 100 it will fail to suspend (which is just as bad, since I have to hard reboot to turn it off). It's been nowhere near 1 in 10 for me though. Easily reliable enough for me to not worry about.
    - Symmetry 15y ago
      How well wifi works depends on if you stick with the default "Thinkpad wireless" or you pay a bit extra for the Intel wireless stuff. Its well worth the extra $20 in terms of the Linux drivers being much better for the later, if nothing else.
      - samstokes 15y ago
        Yes, my memory is a bit hazy but I think I had read (and followed) that advice when I bought my T510.
spinlock 15y ago
That sucks. Is the T510 a 64 bit system? I don't think Linux is quite there on 64bit (although I haven't tried it myself yet).
- munin 15y ago
  all intel x64 systems are capable of being 32 bit. also almost all non-netbook laptops are x64 systems now (and have been for many years). however, if you run 32 bit, you can address less RAM. so. have fun! :(
  - SaltwaterC 15y ago
    You can address up to 64 GiB of RAM with a PAE kernel. Happens that a single process can't access more than 4 GiB of RAM. But in the end, how many people actually run a process that large on a notebook?
    - munin 15y ago
      > how many people actually run a process that large on a notebook? my primary computer is a notebook and I routinely run processes that large (vmware, mathematica, matlab, IDA, binnavi, my own programs, etc). "why do you run these programs on your laptop instead of sshing to a server somewhere?" sensitivity, responsiveness, I don't always have internet, the hardware can do it (8-16GB of RAM in a notebook is almost commonplace)
      - gbrindisi 15y ago
        What laptop are you using which supports 16gb of RAM? I'd love a portable computing juggernaut!
        whatusername 15y ago
        Thinkpad w510. I think some of the Mac laptops might. I'm sure some other systems support it.
schwuk 15y ago
We have a very large number of systems to test, and it is not feasible to test every system with both 32-bit & 64-bit. There are also requirements from the manufacturers to consider. (Please note, I don't perform the testing, so my knowledge is second hand.) Personally, I'd rather see lots of 32-bit systems than a handful of 64-bit. :)
- wmf 15y ago
  Why not test 64-bit first and only try 32-bit if it fails?
  - schwuk 15y ago
    Desktops, Laptops and Netbooks are certified using the 32bit version of Ubuntu and Servers are certified using the 64bit version of Ubuntu Server Edition. This is based on the most common usage patterns we've seen. Another answer is that it would lengthen an already long process.
    - GeneralMaximus 15y ago
      That usage pattern only exists because 32-bit Ubuntu is selected by default and marked as "recommended" on your download page. People I know regularly download the 32-bit version even though I tell them to get the 64-bit version. Why is 64-bit not the recommended option?
      - mappu 15y ago
        Why should it be? PAE [1] is reported to work very well, so there's no RAM problem. Plus, things like ndiswrapper go a long way to highlighting Ubuntu's famous 'ease of use', and i imagine it's a huge hassle to get that working on x86_64. 64-bit is a higher number, but it's not instantly better in all situations. Larger pointers = effectively smaller cache, and the extra registers don't always make up for that. _________________ 1. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnablingPAE https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnablingPAE
Symmetry 15y ago
Yeah, they really should have specified "Not Optimus" or something under the T520. I have one also, for work, and graphics has given me no end of trouble. EDIT: Are you sure you didn't mean to type "T520"? The T510 came out before Optimus was around, accoring to my recollection and a quick check on ThinkWiki. If you click on the link under the name of the laptop they specify which hardware configuration they used, and the T520 very noticeably isn't certified for use with NVidia graphics, unlike the T510. http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201102-7229 http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201102-7229
- LogicHoleFlaw 15y ago
  I'm typing this on a T510 - it definitely has an optimus chipset. Linux support for Optimus is extremely poor, so fortunately you can set in the BIOS whether to use the integrated intel graphics chipset or the discrete nVidia chipset. The laptop works very well in Ubuntu, which is my primary OS. There definitely were some setup hassles when I got the laptop a year ago, but I believe the support is more streamlined today.
schwuk 15y ago
One of the big issues we have (and have yet to solve) is that of SKUs - just because you have a T510' it doesn't guarantee that the components are 100% identical. Suggestions (beside testing every possible combination, which simply doesn't scale) are welcome. :)
- mquander 15y ago
  It would be nice to be able to see an optional list of just what hardware is in each laptop that you tested. First benefit: The user could check that hardware against what he purchased or is purchasing and have a moderate amount of confidence that it's the "same thing" and not a SKU with something significantly different. Second benefit: If you implemented a search, someone wondering whether an unlisted laptop is OK could make a good guess by searching for the presence of tested laptops with the same sound card, graphics card, etc.
  - schwuk 15y ago
    We do that. Have you drilled down into the individual listings? I'm currently working on displaying the 'core' (processor, network, display) components in the main listings to a) help differentiate between SKUs and b) stop you having to view each model to find the one you're interested in.
    - mquander 15y ago
      I did not drill down into the individual listing. Now I know! Cool.
masklinn 15y ago
> not all of the hardware (nvidia optimus for example) is fully supported. As far as I know, Optimus is pretty much solely a drivers feature.
starwed 15y ago
The optimus thing is annoying -- that specifically prevented me from buying an optimus equipped laptop when they came out. (IIRC nvidia gave no help at all to those attempting to provide linux drivers.)

by munin 15y ago

samstokes 15y ago

What problems have you had with your T510? I have the T510 running 64-bit Ubuntu - it worked fine out of the box. I think the only thing I had to tweak was the auto-idle-brightness-reduction. Even dual monitor has worked just fine. Admittedly this is 10.04 - I haven't tried the newer versions on it yet - and I didn't try to get Optimus working. I do wonder why they're so careful about specifying 32-bit - I guess driver availability. Hopefully this shows Canonical and/or the laptop makers themselves are putting a higher priority on compatibility, so maybe 64-bit support won't be far off.

munin 15y ago
dual monitors where both monitors are the DVI docking station? fine dual monitors where one is the onboard LCD and the other is a monitor connected via the VGA port? fine three monitors, where one of them is the onboard LCD and the other two come from the DVI ports? nope! (this works in windows). going from windows to ubuntu, there are three big things that i ran into: no 3 monitor support, less battery life, and wifi issues (google for ubuntu iwlagn, all kinds of awesome ways to get it work like iwconfig wlan0 mode 1M, welcome to 2001, and turning off g/n support) also, suspend/resume has a 1/10 chance of not resuming. this is worse than window's 0/10 chances of not resuming (every. time. i pulled my windows T510 out of my bag and opened it, it was there. with linux? i cross my fingers)
- samstokes 15y ago
  (Not trying to dispute your experience, just presenting my own for balance, for the benefit of anyone trying to decide whether Ubuntu on a Thinkpad is viable.) * Triple monitor: like you, I couldn't get this to work. * Battery life: it's not been as good as in Windows, but it's been very acceptable if I tweak a bit using powertop. (Of course, I'd like it to be as good as in Windows.) * Wifi: I have had no issues whatsoever; this worked perfectly out of the box, even with WPA, G/N, etc. * suspend/resume: I've never had a problem with resume. About 1 time in 100 it will fail to suspend (which is just as bad, since I have to hard reboot to turn it off). It's been nowhere near 1 in 10 for me though. Easily reliable enough for me to not worry about.
  - Symmetry 15y ago
    How well wifi works depends on if you stick with the default "Thinkpad wireless" or you pay a bit extra for the Intel wireless stuff. Its well worth the extra $20 in terms of the Linux drivers being much better for the later, if nothing else.
    - samstokes 15y ago
      Yes, my memory is a bit hazy but I think I had read (and followed) that advice when I bought my T510.

spinlock 15y ago

That sucks. Is the T510 a 64 bit system? I don't think Linux is quite there on 64bit (although I haven't tried it myself yet).

munin 15y ago
all intel x64 systems are capable of being 32 bit. also almost all non-netbook laptops are x64 systems now (and have been for many years). however, if you run 32 bit, you can address less RAM. so. have fun! :(
- SaltwaterC 15y ago
  You can address up to 64 GiB of RAM with a PAE kernel. Happens that a single process can't access more than 4 GiB of RAM. But in the end, how many people actually run a process that large on a notebook?
  - munin 15y ago
    > how many people actually run a process that large on a notebook? my primary computer is a notebook and I routinely run processes that large (vmware, mathematica, matlab, IDA, binnavi, my own programs, etc). "why do you run these programs on your laptop instead of sshing to a server somewhere?" sensitivity, responsiveness, I don't always have internet, the hardware can do it (8-16GB of RAM in a notebook is almost commonplace)
    - gbrindisi 15y ago
      What laptop are you using which supports 16gb of RAM? I'd love a portable computing juggernaut!
      - whatusername 15y ago
        Thinkpad w510. I think some of the Mac laptops might. I'm sure some other systems support it.

schwuk 15y ago

We have a very large number of systems to test, and it is not feasible to test every system with both 32-bit & 64-bit. There are also requirements from the manufacturers to consider. (Please note, I don't perform the testing, so my knowledge is second hand.) Personally, I'd rather see lots of 32-bit systems than a handful of 64-bit. :)

wmf 15y ago
Why not test 64-bit first and only try 32-bit if it fails?
- schwuk 15y ago
  Desktops, Laptops and Netbooks are certified using the 32bit version of Ubuntu and Servers are certified using the 64bit version of Ubuntu Server Edition. This is based on the most common usage patterns we've seen. Another answer is that it would lengthen an already long process.
  - GeneralMaximus 15y ago
    That usage pattern only exists because 32-bit Ubuntu is selected by default and marked as "recommended" on your download page. People I know regularly download the 32-bit version even though I tell them to get the 64-bit version. Why is 64-bit not the recommended option?
    - mappu 15y ago
      Why should it be? PAE [1] is reported to work very well, so there's no RAM problem. Plus, things like ndiswrapper go a long way to highlighting Ubuntu's famous 'ease of use', and i imagine it's a huge hassle to get that working on x86_64. 64-bit is a higher number, but it's not instantly better in all situations. Larger pointers = effectively smaller cache, and the extra registers don't always make up for that. _________________ 1. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnablingPAE https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnablingPAE

Symmetry 15y ago

Yeah, they really should have specified "Not Optimus" or something under the T520. I have one also, for work, and graphics has given me no end of trouble. EDIT: Are you sure you didn't mean to type "T520"? The T510 came out before Optimus was around, accoring to my recollection and a quick check on ThinkWiki. If you click on the link under the name of the laptop they specify which hardware configuration they used, and the T520 very noticeably isn't certified for use with NVidia graphics, unlike the T510. http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201102-7229 http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201102-7229

LogicHoleFlaw 15y ago
I'm typing this on a T510 - it definitely has an optimus chipset. Linux support for Optimus is extremely poor, so fortunately you can set in the BIOS whether to use the integrated intel graphics chipset or the discrete nVidia chipset. The laptop works very well in Ubuntu, which is my primary OS. There definitely were some setup hassles when I got the laptop a year ago, but I believe the support is more streamlined today.

schwuk 15y ago

One of the big issues we have (and have yet to solve) is that of SKUs - just because you have a T510' it doesn't guarantee that the components are 100% identical. Suggestions (beside testing every possible combination, which simply doesn't scale) are welcome. :)

mquander 15y ago
It would be nice to be able to see an optional list of just what hardware is in each laptop that you tested. First benefit: The user could check that hardware against what he purchased or is purchasing and have a moderate amount of confidence that it's the "same thing" and not a SKU with something significantly different. Second benefit: If you implemented a search, someone wondering whether an unlisted laptop is OK could make a good guess by searching for the presence of tested laptops with the same sound card, graphics card, etc.
- schwuk 15y ago
  We do that. Have you drilled down into the individual listings? I'm currently working on displaying the 'core' (processor, network, display) components in the main listings to a) help differentiate between SKUs and b) stop you having to view each model to find the one you're interested in.
  - mquander 15y ago
    I did not drill down into the individual listing. Now I know! Cool.

masklinn 15y ago

> not all of the hardware (nvidia optimus for example) is fully supported. As far as I know, Optimus is pretty much solely a drivers feature.

starwed 15y ago

The optimus thing is annoying -- that specifically prevented me from buying an optimus equipped laptop when they came out. (IIRC nvidia gave no help at all to those attempting to provide linux drivers.)