2 ms·

Not a bad assumption. I'd be shocked if they weren't all over this and I don't think NATO involvement is such a huge secret. We've been sending weapons, trainin

Not a bad assumption. I'd be shocked if they weren't all over this and I don't think NATO involvement is such a huge secret. We've been sending weapons, training people, donating billions, and probably sharing intelligence as well. And lately politicians are falling over each other for a photo opportunity with Zelensky in Kyiv. There probably is a fair bit of clandestine operations going on inside the Ukraine as well. I would expect no less. Business as usual in an active war zone and the stakes are pretty high. From a NATO point of view, the Russians self destructing their army in this misguided war is a huge unexpected opportunity. I don't think anybody really expected that they'd go there but now that they have, it would be a shame to not make the most of it. The Russians seem to have gotten stuck committing major troops, ships, planes, tanks etc. and it seems that they are losing quite a bit of that and also that it isn't actually enough. Not a good picture; no matter how you spin it.

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
That's true, but NATO is just one aspect of its member states. And while it's correct to assume that it is in the best interest of NATO for this war to last long and deplete Russia's resources, it is just one of many factors to consider. Most importantly, each day means more deaths of innocent people, so this is something you'd want to avoid under normal circumstances. In any case, it's not like anybody has much choice. Ukrainians have to fight to defend their country, the West has to support them, and Russia can't just back down. I just wish Zelenski let those males who want to leave go. It's inhuman to keep them there.
bigbizisverywyz 5y ago
It would be a very sad state of affairs if NATO basically used the Ukrainians to soak up as much damage as the Russians can inflict in order to weaken it, whilst giving only as little support as necessary, and by dragging the war on. However it's clear that NATO is also mindful of the fact that Ukraine is currently well led by a capable democratic leader, but that might not be the case in a year or 2, so don't give them too many toys. Saying that, as an armchair general I would like to see Ukraine driving a wedge to the west of Mariupol down to the sea, and a wedge just south of Kherson to surround the forces there. Secondly they could cross over into Russia via Bolgorod and attack the eastern forces from behind, whilst taking out as much military (including propaganda channels) and rail infra on the way. The land bridge to Crimea should be reduced to rubble and the port at Sevastopol disabled. Don't know that they have the man power for that, but that should give the old dictator something to worry about.
- CapricornNoble 5y ago
  >>>It would be a very sad state of affairs if NATO basically used the Ukrainians to soak up as much damage as the Russians can inflict in order to weaken it No one will openly state it but I'm confident this is the perspective in the US's halls of power. It's possibly the only thing the CIA and State Department have done right in the past ~25 years, and I think it's more a stroke of luck that the Russian military is surprisingly-incompetent than anything deliberate on our part. If Russia had performed as expected, this war would have been over in 72hrs and we'd be making excuses just like we did when our Afghan house of cards folded. >>>Ukraine is currently well led by a capable democratic leader democratic? this guy? https://euobserver.com/opinion/152478 https://euobserver.com/opinion/152478 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-zelensky%E2%80%99s-ukraine-becoming-increasingly-autocratic-182124 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-zelensky%E2%80%99s-... https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-medvedchuk-tv-channels-zelenskiy-defends-ban/31085877.html https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-medvedchuk-tv-channels-zelen... >>>Don't know that they have the man power for that Manpower isn't the problem. They don't have the munitions or the logistics to pull off such grand operational maneuvers. And moving large conventional forces into Russia itself would be a hugely destabilizing escalation. It would give Putin an excuse to actually mobilize his reserves, and give stronger justification for employment of tactical nuclear weapons (which people are already concerned he might use).
- petre 5y ago
  A larger scale attack in Russia near Bolgorod is a bit of a stretch and would give Putin an excuse to use tactical nukes, but insurgencies should work. I agree about the Kerch land bridge and the port disabled, the thing is that I don't know if they have the resources to do that.

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

That's true, but NATO is just one aspect of its member states. And while it's correct to assume that it is in the best interest of NATO for this war to last long and deplete Russia's resources, it is just one of many factors to consider. Most importantly, each day means more deaths of innocent people, so this is something you'd want to avoid under normal circumstances. In any case, it's not like anybody has much choice. Ukrainians have to fight to defend their country, the West has to support them, and Russia can't just back down. I just wish Zelenski let those males who want to leave go. It's inhuman to keep them there.

bigbizisverywyz 5y ago

It would be a very sad state of affairs if NATO basically used the Ukrainians to soak up as much damage as the Russians can inflict in order to weaken it, whilst giving only as little support as necessary, and by dragging the war on. However it's clear that NATO is also mindful of the fact that Ukraine is currently well led by a capable democratic leader, but that might not be the case in a year or 2, so don't give them too many toys. Saying that, as an armchair general I would like to see Ukraine driving a wedge to the west of Mariupol down to the sea, and a wedge just south of Kherson to surround the forces there. Secondly they could cross over into Russia via Bolgorod and attack the eastern forces from behind, whilst taking out as much military (including propaganda channels) and rail infra on the way. The land bridge to Crimea should be reduced to rubble and the port at Sevastopol disabled. Don't know that they have the man power for that, but that should give the old dictator something to worry about.

CapricornNoble 5y ago
>>>It would be a very sad state of affairs if NATO basically used the Ukrainians to soak up as much damage as the Russians can inflict in order to weaken it No one will openly state it but I'm confident this is the perspective in the US's halls of power. It's possibly the only thing the CIA and State Department have done right in the past ~25 years, and I think it's more a stroke of luck that the Russian military is surprisingly-incompetent than anything deliberate on our part. If Russia had performed as expected, this war would have been over in 72hrs and we'd be making excuses just like we did when our Afghan house of cards folded. >>>Ukraine is currently well led by a capable democratic leader democratic? this guy? https://euobserver.com/opinion/152478 https://euobserver.com/opinion/152478 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-zelensky%E2%80%99s-ukraine-becoming-increasingly-autocratic-182124 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-zelensky%E2%80%99s-... https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-medvedchuk-tv-channels-zelenskiy-defends-ban/31085877.html https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-medvedchuk-tv-channels-zelen... >>>Don't know that they have the man power for that Manpower isn't the problem. They don't have the munitions or the logistics to pull off such grand operational maneuvers. And moving large conventional forces into Russia itself would be a hugely destabilizing escalation. It would give Putin an excuse to actually mobilize his reserves, and give stronger justification for employment of tactical nuclear weapons (which people are already concerned he might use).
petre 5y ago
A larger scale attack in Russia near Bolgorod is a bit of a stretch and would give Putin an excuse to use tactical nukes, but insurgencies should work. I agree about the Kerch land bridge and the port disabled, the thing is that I don't know if they have the resources to do that.