7 ms·

> I'm surprised this isn't a major diplomatic incident between the UK and Israel too Are you really surprised? I'd be surprised if the UK and its media made a

by qiskit 4y ago

> I'm surprised this isn't a major diplomatic incident between the UK and Israel too Are you really surprised? I'd be surprised if the UK and its media made a fuss about it. Certainly we won't be making a fuss about it here in the US that's for sure. I'd imagine russia and china wishes they had 1/10th the influence that israel has in the US/UK. Say what you want about israel, but for such a tiny country, it punches far above its weight.

coliveira 4y ago
I don't know about Russia, but China doesn't let people from other nationalities to occupy positions of power especially in foreign policy, in which they're completely right. This is the main weakness of the USA and UK. They will let foreign born people to raise to power and dictate self servicing policies, many times in detriment to their own population. For example, take Henry Kissinger: a german born person, he spent his whole life influencing American policy to accommodate his views concerning Europe and the rest of the world. It is not a surprise that the Western world is in this situation.
- petre 4y ago
  The UK is quite xenophobic as it is. No need for extra laws to prohibit foreigners to ascend to positions of power. Your peers will take care of that. I'm quite surprised that an UK born citizen of Pakistani heritage is currently the mayor of London. Maybe Labour is less xenophobic that the others.
  - petesergeant 4y ago
    > I'm quite surprised that an UK born citizen of Pakistani heritage is currently the mayor of London The only surprise here is that he's Labour, not Tory. Half of the current Great Offices of State are held by brown people under the Tories, who also had the first Jewish PM, the first (and second, and only) female PMs, and then there's Saj who's been Chancellor and Home Secretary, and I reckon is about as likely as Sunak to be the next PM. They appointed the first female, gay head of the Met Police, and the leader of the party in Scotland was also a gay woman for 8 very recent years. Some of these people are clearly the worst of British politics (hello Priti Patel!), but the Tories have an excellent record of putting people who aren't straight, white, Christian men into positions of power.
  - getaloadofthis0 4y ago
    > No need for extra laws to prohibit foreigners to ascend to positions of power. What on Earth are you talking about? 10% of parliament are from ethnic minorities (including many high profile positions, Tories included), against a UK background of 14%. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01156/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01... 9% of parliament identifies as gay/bi against a UK background of 5%. https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/12/31/lgbt-mps-gay-lesbian-bisexual-queer-uk-parliament/ https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/12/31/lgbt-mps-gay-lesbian-b...
  - Veen 4y ago
    There are so many people in this thread talking nonsense about the UK. The current Tory (right wing) Cabinet (the executive) includes Rishi Sunak as Chancellor, Priti Patel as Home Secretary, Savid Jaavid as Secretary of State for Health, Kwasi Kwartang as Secretary of State for Business, Alok Sharma as COP26 President, Nadim Zahawi as Secretary of State for Education, and Suella Braverman as Attorney General — all of Pakistani, Indian, or African ancestry. It is quite likely the next PM will be of Pakistani or Indian ancestry (unless it’s a Labour PM; they have a poor record of promoting minorities to the top of Government) It's simply not true that the UK is xenophobic.
- jen20 4y ago
  Which UK politician are you referring to? The only one I’m aware of in high office currently who was born abroad is Boris Johnson, who was born in New York - a fact so far down the list of reasons for his unfitness for office that it does not really register. The idea that this is the “main” problem in the UK is frankly laughable.
  - clort 4y ago
    Well of course, GP said 'positions of power' rather than 'politician'. Controversially, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Lebedev https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Lebedev has been ennobled and is now qualified to sit in the House of Lords, most definitely a position of power though he has not as yet chosen to appear there as far as I know. It turns out that Unelected Lords are also permitted to be ministers in the cabinet, so...
    - jen20 4y ago
      Lebedev definitely qualifies here.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- recuter 4y ago
  Just wait until you find out the UK had a Jewish prime minister. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli The rabbit hole goes deeper, keep digging! They can't keep the truth hidden forever.
mandevil 4y ago
When 11 US diplomats in Uganda turned up with NSO Pegasus Malware on their phones, the US government responded by listing NSO as a covered Entity and forbidding any US company from buying or selling with it without express permission of the USG- Dell can't sell them monitors or laptops without the State Department publishing written, specific permission. Several US congresspersons advocated for even harsher response (Global Magnitsky Sanctions, which would, AIUI, basically cut them off from the dollar and their employees from traveling to the US). The US reserves the right to do that later. So the US has responded, quite forcefully, to people much lower on the food chain being hacked by Pegasus. See: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/12/the-secret-uganda-deal-that-has-brought-nso-to-the-brink-of-collapse/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/12/the-s...
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  Sure, the US effectively blacklisted NSO, but they did nothing to Israel. Imagine if a Russian business was found to have hacked State Department employees phones. Would being a private company prevent Russia from being blamed, particularly if they had the kind of state connections NSO had?
- freeflight 4y ago
  > Dell can't sell them monitors or laptops without the State Department publishing written, specific permission. I wonder how this is enforced in practice? I have to assume Israel has retailer shops where anybody can just buy whatever, most likely even Dell laptops and monitors.

by qiskit 4y ago

coliveira 4y ago

I don't know about Russia, but China doesn't let people from other nationalities to occupy positions of power especially in foreign policy, in which they're completely right. This is the main weakness of the USA and UK. They will let foreign born people to raise to power and dictate self servicing policies, many times in detriment to their own population. For example, take Henry Kissinger: a german born person, he spent his whole life influencing American policy to accommodate his views concerning Europe and the rest of the world. It is not a surprise that the Western world is in this situation.

petre 4y ago
The UK is quite xenophobic as it is. No need for extra laws to prohibit foreigners to ascend to positions of power. Your peers will take care of that. I'm quite surprised that an UK born citizen of Pakistani heritage is currently the mayor of London. Maybe Labour is less xenophobic that the others.
- petesergeant 4y ago
  > I'm quite surprised that an UK born citizen of Pakistani heritage is currently the mayor of London The only surprise here is that he's Labour, not Tory. Half of the current Great Offices of State are held by brown people under the Tories, who also had the first Jewish PM, the first (and second, and only) female PMs, and then there's Saj who's been Chancellor and Home Secretary, and I reckon is about as likely as Sunak to be the next PM. They appointed the first female, gay head of the Met Police, and the leader of the party in Scotland was also a gay woman for 8 very recent years. Some of these people are clearly the worst of British politics (hello Priti Patel!), but the Tories have an excellent record of putting people who aren't straight, white, Christian men into positions of power.
- getaloadofthis0 4y ago
  > No need for extra laws to prohibit foreigners to ascend to positions of power. What on Earth are you talking about? 10% of parliament are from ethnic minorities (including many high profile positions, Tories included), against a UK background of 14%. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01156/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01... 9% of parliament identifies as gay/bi against a UK background of 5%. https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/12/31/lgbt-mps-gay-lesbian-bisexual-queer-uk-parliament/ https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/12/31/lgbt-mps-gay-lesbian-b...
- Veen 4y ago
  There are so many people in this thread talking nonsense about the UK. The current Tory (right wing) Cabinet (the executive) includes Rishi Sunak as Chancellor, Priti Patel as Home Secretary, Savid Jaavid as Secretary of State for Health, Kwasi Kwartang as Secretary of State for Business, Alok Sharma as COP26 President, Nadim Zahawi as Secretary of State for Education, and Suella Braverman as Attorney General — all of Pakistani, Indian, or African ancestry. It is quite likely the next PM will be of Pakistani or Indian ancestry (unless it’s a Labour PM; they have a poor record of promoting minorities to the top of Government) It's simply not true that the UK is xenophobic.
jen20 4y ago
Which UK politician are you referring to? The only one I’m aware of in high office currently who was born abroad is Boris Johnson, who was born in New York - a fact so far down the list of reasons for his unfitness for office that it does not really register. The idea that this is the “main” problem in the UK is frankly laughable.
- clort 4y ago
  Well of course, GP said 'positions of power' rather than 'politician'. Controversially, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Lebedev https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Lebedev has been ennobled and is now qualified to sit in the House of Lords, most definitely a position of power though he has not as yet chosen to appear there as far as I know. It turns out that Unelected Lords are also permitted to be ministers in the cabinet, so...
  - jen20 4y ago
    Lebedev definitely qualifies here.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
recuter 4y ago
Just wait until you find out the UK had a Jewish prime minister. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Disraeli The rabbit hole goes deeper, keep digging! They can't keep the truth hidden forever.

mandevil 4y ago

When 11 US diplomats in Uganda turned up with NSO Pegasus Malware on their phones, the US government responded by listing NSO as a covered Entity and forbidding any US company from buying or selling with it without express permission of the USG- Dell can't sell them monitors or laptops without the State Department publishing written, specific permission. Several US congresspersons advocated for even harsher response (Global Magnitsky Sanctions, which would, AIUI, basically cut them off from the dollar and their employees from traveling to the US). The US reserves the right to do that later. So the US has responded, quite forcefully, to people much lower on the food chain being hacked by Pegasus. See: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/12/the-secret-uganda-deal-that-has-brought-nso-to-the-brink-of-collapse/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/12/the-s...

boomboomsubban 4y ago
Sure, the US effectively blacklisted NSO, but they did nothing to Israel. Imagine if a Russian business was found to have hacked State Department employees phones. Would being a private company prevent Russia from being blamed, particularly if they had the kind of state connections NSO had?
freeflight 4y ago
> Dell can't sell them monitors or laptops without the State Department publishing written, specific permission. I wonder how this is enforced in practice? I have to assume Israel has retailer shops where anybody can just buy whatever, most likely even Dell laptops and monitors.