6 ms·

On the other hand, my android phone works reliably for ... I don't know weeks? Months? I only restart for major update. My Ubuntu laptop after a straight instal

by IanCal 5y ago

On the other hand, my android phone works reliably for ... I don't know weeks? Months? I only restart for major update. My Ubuntu laptop after a straight install didn't turn off properly, my Ubuntu desktop regularly has chrome crash and fails to wake up the screen. I've had so many issues with basic Linux setups that I absolutely do not want that on my phone. I don't want a browser that's described as just "usable". I don't want zoom that goes absolutely nuts or a webcam that loves to decide some ports aren't OK. My phone works. I open it and it works. I've never been in a position where trying to fix the underlying OS was required nor could I picture it being something worth time I'd have to trade away from my family.

Agamus 5y ago
I must be one of the lucky few. I've used Linux Mint as my main desktop for about 10 years now with zero problems. I've used LineageOS as my main phone OS for about 5 years now with zero problems. I run Windows for work and gaming, and run into issues regularly. Default Android/iPhone makes me a bit queasy.
usrn 5y ago
I actually don't share your experience. My Linux machines are all more reliable than the best smartphones I've had. Flagship Android phones have been the worst in my experience, most can't make it a week without crashing, not to mention the awful battery life. Maybe it's because I know to be picky about PC hardware and don't run things like Chrome. >I don't want a browser that's described as just "usable". I have to wonder what exactly you do want then, maybe a parade? I get it though. You don't want the responsibility of configuring your device. That's fine, most people don't. This next thing you said really gets me though: > I've never been in a position where trying to fix the underlying OS was required nor could I picture it being something worth time I'd have to trade away from my family. You've been conditioned to feel helpless here. You've been told you can't fix things so you accept that they're broken and don't think about it. That's one reaction and in this situation it's probably healthier. For me it's like living in a house with crooked picture frames and the police showing up if you try to straiten them. It's a little upsetting for people to act like that's reasonable or ok.
- noirbot 5y ago
  I've been daily-drivering on Linux for Desktop and Laptop for months and Linux across 4 different distros has made me feel more helpless than Windows ever did. Sure, the Windows "police" would come in and straighten my update settings (which is ultimately why I abandoned Windows), but Linux you get the helplessness of sometimes having something break and the only answer you can find after spending half of your weekend searching for solutions is just "idk, give up and reset your entire OS" or "Yea, that bit of hardware just doesn't work with the Linux kernel and never will because some BDFL hates someone who worked at that company". I'm currently living with SO MANY "crooked picture frames" on all my devices that I've just given up on fixing after spending tens of hours on them and burning my free time on it. I still prefer Linux in general for a lot of the reasons you like it, but just doing basic "I want to install a program to take screenshots" has send me down hours of reading about how window compositing systems work, and why Snap is the devil even though everyone seems to be using it now. If I wasn't single and had better hobbies other than tinkering with config files, I'd have given up months ago.
  - usrn 5y ago
    The trick to not having crooked picture frames on Linux is to throw out components that refuse to be straightened (and you'll run into many of these, especially if you're on a distro pushing snap on you.) If you pull out everything complex and thoroughly understand what's left you won't run into the "idk just reset the whole OS" situation. Something Windows/OSX users coming to Linux might not realize is that almost nothing in the userspace is actually necessary because the kernel does almost everything. Especially if you don't want graphics but even if you consider those components necisary then all you need are: The kernel (one file plus some modules), a device manager (the thing that creates nodes in /dev when you plug stuff in, if you use kdrive you don't even need this), a display manager (Xorg, kdrive or Wayland) and some kind of shell and VTE (bash and Xterm for example.) Literally everything else can be thrown out if you don't want to deal with it. Don't like configuring systemd? I've used just script in the past at /linuxrc. Don't like what Gnome is doing or maybe it's crashing on you? Get rid of it, for the most part it's just aesthetic and the functionality can be replaced by eg fluxbox and PCFMan (and maybe wpa_gui if you like using a GUI to configure your wireless card.) Did the package manager get confused? You can actually get away with removing the database and starting over (although this will replace all the binaries it previously installed and potentially overwrite configs.) Don't be afraid to nuke things.
zeagle 5y ago
I would agree with you (Pixel 6). I've found that any problem I have can be solved with something on f-droid / google play and by googling it. This isn't dissimilar to the experience in linux for my headless NAS or VPS to figure out how to run a new service or learning to use borg backup. Backup photos via SMB share every night if on local wifi/VPN'd home? Sync calendar, contacts with nextcloud via dav? Schedule a copy of my sandboxed work outlook calendar from Nine into a dav calendar so I can share it (read only) with family? Spit tunnel wireguard traffic? All these work without having to root and I'm not spending my evening trying to fix driver issues. I didn't spend an entire evening on these away from family. I'm not happy giving away the sum total of my experience on this planet to Google but this device just works and it works well. Some conveniences like Android Auto keep me from going to CalyxOS.

by IanCal 5y ago

Agamus 5y ago

I must be one of the lucky few. I've used Linux Mint as my main desktop for about 10 years now with zero problems. I've used LineageOS as my main phone OS for about 5 years now with zero problems. I run Windows for work and gaming, and run into issues regularly. Default Android/iPhone makes me a bit queasy.

usrn 5y ago

I actually don't share your experience. My Linux machines are all more reliable than the best smartphones I've had. Flagship Android phones have been the worst in my experience, most can't make it a week without crashing, not to mention the awful battery life. Maybe it's because I know to be picky about PC hardware and don't run things like Chrome. >I don't want a browser that's described as just "usable". I have to wonder what exactly you do want then, maybe a parade? I get it though. You don't want the responsibility of configuring your device. That's fine, most people don't. This next thing you said really gets me though: > I've never been in a position where trying to fix the underlying OS was required nor could I picture it being something worth time I'd have to trade away from my family. You've been conditioned to feel helpless here. You've been told you can't fix things so you accept that they're broken and don't think about it. That's one reaction and in this situation it's probably healthier. For me it's like living in a house with crooked picture frames and the police showing up if you try to straiten them. It's a little upsetting for people to act like that's reasonable or ok.

noirbot 5y ago
I've been daily-drivering on Linux for Desktop and Laptop for months and Linux across 4 different distros has made me feel more helpless than Windows ever did. Sure, the Windows "police" would come in and straighten my update settings (which is ultimately why I abandoned Windows), but Linux you get the helplessness of sometimes having something break and the only answer you can find after spending half of your weekend searching for solutions is just "idk, give up and reset your entire OS" or "Yea, that bit of hardware just doesn't work with the Linux kernel and never will because some BDFL hates someone who worked at that company". I'm currently living with SO MANY "crooked picture frames" on all my devices that I've just given up on fixing after spending tens of hours on them and burning my free time on it. I still prefer Linux in general for a lot of the reasons you like it, but just doing basic "I want to install a program to take screenshots" has send me down hours of reading about how window compositing systems work, and why Snap is the devil even though everyone seems to be using it now. If I wasn't single and had better hobbies other than tinkering with config files, I'd have given up months ago.
- usrn 5y ago
  The trick to not having crooked picture frames on Linux is to throw out components that refuse to be straightened (and you'll run into many of these, especially if you're on a distro pushing snap on you.) If you pull out everything complex and thoroughly understand what's left you won't run into the "idk just reset the whole OS" situation. Something Windows/OSX users coming to Linux might not realize is that almost nothing in the userspace is actually necessary because the kernel does almost everything. Especially if you don't want graphics but even if you consider those components necisary then all you need are: The kernel (one file plus some modules), a device manager (the thing that creates nodes in /dev when you plug stuff in, if you use kdrive you don't even need this), a display manager (Xorg, kdrive or Wayland) and some kind of shell and VTE (bash and Xterm for example.) Literally everything else can be thrown out if you don't want to deal with it. Don't like configuring systemd? I've used just script in the past at /linuxrc. Don't like what Gnome is doing or maybe it's crashing on you? Get rid of it, for the most part it's just aesthetic and the functionality can be replaced by eg fluxbox and PCFMan (and maybe wpa_gui if you like using a GUI to configure your wireless card.) Did the package manager get confused? You can actually get away with removing the database and starting over (although this will replace all the binaries it previously installed and potentially overwrite configs.) Don't be afraid to nuke things.

zeagle 5y ago

I would agree with you (Pixel 6). I've found that any problem I have can be solved with something on f-droid / google play and by googling it. This isn't dissimilar to the experience in linux for my headless NAS or VPS to figure out how to run a new service or learning to use borg backup. Backup photos via SMB share every night if on local wifi/VPN'd home? Sync calendar, contacts with nextcloud via dav? Schedule a copy of my sandboxed work outlook calendar from Nine into a dav calendar so I can share it (read only) with family? Spit tunnel wireguard traffic? All these work without having to root and I'm not spending my evening trying to fix driver issues. I didn't spend an entire evening on these away from family. I'm not happy giving away the sum total of my experience on this planet to Google but this device just works and it works well. Some conveniences like Android Auto keep me from going to CalyxOS.