4 ms·

Tesla Autopilot Stirs U.S. Alarm as 'Disaster Waiting to Happen'

14 points by IdEntities 4y ago

mensetmanusman 4y ago
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-model https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-... Anyone know of other good data sources for comparison?
lvl102 4y ago
We need autonomous vehicles based on open/public software. That’s the only way.
kbos87 4y ago
I was an autopilot skeptic until I wasn’t. As a user of the system it’s 100% clear that it’s my responsibility to be able to take over at any time. Autopilot regularly restricts the places it will engage and speed it will operate at based on road conditions. The safety of autopilot concerns me a lot less than the safety of other drivers on the road, the majority of who seem to be using their phones any second they think they can steal while behind the wheel. Autopilot also gets noticeably better every passing week or two that I’ve been using it. Just as one example it now alerts you and slows down when it sees an emergency vehicle on the side of the road. (To be clear I’m not commenting on the specific accidents pointed out in the article, only my experience using it and seeing the pace of improvement.) On the other hand, Tesla’s history of how they have marketed autopilot to buyers seems downright misleading. It’s clear now that autopilot isn’t 100% autonomous, but I’d be pretty upset if I made a buying decision a couple of years ago based on the hyperbole coming from Elon Musk and on their website about what was supposedly right around the corner.
- lifeplusplus 4y ago
  It's such a great auto pilot but you're on the hook if anything ever goes wrong seems contradictory
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > it’s 100% clear that it’s my responsibility to be able to take over at any time. There's no way you can actually be ready to take over at any time though. That's just setting you up to take the blame when autopilot fails. I mean, sure, sometimes you'll detect the error and avert it. But sometimes you won't.
  - Arnt 4y ago
    The phrasing of GP's comment implies that GP is an actual user of the system. Has actual experience. You shouldn't say "there's no way" etc to people who have experience when you have none. I'm curious what an actual user of the system thinks the benefit of Autopilot is, compared to other cars that also require the driver's attention all of the time.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      > ou shouldn't say "there's no way" etc to people who have experience when you have none. What makes you think I have no experience? Also, it's perfectly fine to dismiss claims that seem impossible without supporting evidence. I don't need to believe every psychic until I disprove them. There's no way someone can be as good at taking over randomly from an AI as they are at performing the action in the first place.
      - kbos87 4y ago
        Your comment makes it sound like “taking over from AI” is some complicated action. In reality that means turning the wheel reflexively to a road hazard or hitting the brakes in the same way that I would if autopilot wasn’t engaged. My attention is still on the road.
        HWR_14 4y ago
        If you are constantly turning the wheel and applying pedals in a way such that autopilot wasn't engaged, how does autopilot do anything? Alternatively, if you aren't constantly turning the wheel and applying pedals, how many seconds do you think it takes you to start? And before that, how much slower is your base reaction time when your "attention is on the road" but you're not driving?
leobg 4y ago
I seriously wonder if we’d have this kind of news cycle if Tesla was a private company. I’ve been watching Tesla since 2016. And it just seems like clockwork: Stock price is high -> news about how dangerous autopilot is. One could almost think it was some reverse pump and dump scheme. I’m all for questioning new technology. And I personally don’t mind the ups and downs. I’m just wondering how much of this kind of reporting we would still be seeing if all of the incentives offered by the stock market would go away.

14 points by IdEntities 4y ago

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-model https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-... Anyone know of other good data sources for comparison?

lvl102 4y ago

We need autonomous vehicles based on open/public software. That’s the only way.

kbos87 4y ago

I was an autopilot skeptic until I wasn’t. As a user of the system it’s 100% clear that it’s my responsibility to be able to take over at any time. Autopilot regularly restricts the places it will engage and speed it will operate at based on road conditions. The safety of autopilot concerns me a lot less than the safety of other drivers on the road, the majority of who seem to be using their phones any second they think they can steal while behind the wheel. Autopilot also gets noticeably better every passing week or two that I’ve been using it. Just as one example it now alerts you and slows down when it sees an emergency vehicle on the side of the road. (To be clear I’m not commenting on the specific accidents pointed out in the article, only my experience using it and seeing the pace of improvement.) On the other hand, Tesla’s history of how they have marketed autopilot to buyers seems downright misleading. It’s clear now that autopilot isn’t 100% autonomous, but I’d be pretty upset if I made a buying decision a couple of years ago based on the hyperbole coming from Elon Musk and on their website about what was supposedly right around the corner.

lifeplusplus 4y ago
It's such a great auto pilot but you're on the hook if anything ever goes wrong seems contradictory
HWR_14 4y ago
> it’s 100% clear that it’s my responsibility to be able to take over at any time. There's no way you can actually be ready to take over at any time though. That's just setting you up to take the blame when autopilot fails. I mean, sure, sometimes you'll detect the error and avert it. But sometimes you won't.
- Arnt 4y ago
  The phrasing of GP's comment implies that GP is an actual user of the system. Has actual experience. You shouldn't say "there's no way" etc to people who have experience when you have none. I'm curious what an actual user of the system thinks the benefit of Autopilot is, compared to other cars that also require the driver's attention all of the time.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    > ou shouldn't say "there's no way" etc to people who have experience when you have none. What makes you think I have no experience? Also, it's perfectly fine to dismiss claims that seem impossible without supporting evidence. I don't need to believe every psychic until I disprove them. There's no way someone can be as good at taking over randomly from an AI as they are at performing the action in the first place.
    - kbos87 4y ago
      Your comment makes it sound like “taking over from AI” is some complicated action. In reality that means turning the wheel reflexively to a road hazard or hitting the brakes in the same way that I would if autopilot wasn’t engaged. My attention is still on the road.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        If you are constantly turning the wheel and applying pedals in a way such that autopilot wasn't engaged, how does autopilot do anything? Alternatively, if you aren't constantly turning the wheel and applying pedals, how many seconds do you think it takes you to start? And before that, how much slower is your base reaction time when your "attention is on the road" but you're not driving?

leobg 4y ago

I seriously wonder if we’d have this kind of news cycle if Tesla was a private company. I’ve been watching Tesla since 2016. And it just seems like clockwork: Stock price is high -> news about how dangerous autopilot is. One could almost think it was some reverse pump and dump scheme. I’m all for questioning new technology. And I personally don’t mind the ups and downs. I’m just wondering how much of this kind of reporting we would still be seeing if all of the incentives offered by the stock market would go away.