7 ms·

As someone who had a few pre-smartphone PDAs: Smartphones absolutely are high powered shit. On paper they're amazing but the ecosystem limits you to scrolling i

by usrn 5y ago

As someone who had a few pre-smartphone PDAs: Smartphones absolutely are high powered shit. On paper they're amazing but the ecosystem limits you to scrolling instagram and only a handfull of accepted IMs (iOS struggles with XMPP and IRC for example, something even my hacked DS could do fine with 4MB of ram and a 60Mhz ARM9.) Just editing fucking textfiles and copying it back to a normal PC (that isn't a mac) is a real bitch. Especially if you don't have an internet connection. It's almost as bad as a ti84+ honestly, just a nicer screen, a couple cameras, and the ability to send IM and email. In fact the TI84 could do things iOS can't, I had compilers on mine. EDIT: Somehow I missed that you mentioned the battery. Smartphones have some of the worst battery life among any PDA I've had. iPhones can stretch out a few days (maybe a week if it's just sitting in a drawer near a tower) if you use them sparingly but it's nothing like the Palm Pilot or the grayscale calculators that could easily last a month.

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
> Just editing fucking textfiles and copying it back to a normal PC (that isn't a mac) is a real bitch. Especially if you don't have an internet connection. It's almost as bad as a ti84+ honestly. If you're on Android, I suggest looking at F-Droid; there exist decent text editors and file managers, and failing all else Termux manages to drag a decent amount of sanity in.
- usrn 5y ago
  I had an Android. Every update made Termux less and less capable (IIRC exec is very complex or impossible in a recent one.) Now I have a Pinephone running a normal X11 DE and I don't have to tolerate an ounce of stupidity. Sure there are legitimate good faith defects in the software but nothing is intentionally broken just for the sake of it. ssh just works (the phone shipped with it preinstalled) vim just works scp just works All my X11 apps just work All the scripts and little tools I've built up over the years just work (no fighting with namespaces when you switch to root or other weird Android nonsense.) All my dev tools just work (and you might say "well why would I ever want that on a phone? Because when you find a bug in the OS or an app and you're sitting on transit you can fix it right then and there. No making mental notes, no filling out issues, just slow continuous improvement. Something these mobile OSes will never have.) Desktop Firefox just works (even without touchscreen mode it's usable. With xinput2 enabled it has nice gesture support.) Want something to run in the background? Just open an Xterm window, run it, and minimize it. Want it to start on boot? Add it to the default runlevel or your X session just like you would on any other computer. There's absolutely no reason for any of the mobile nonsense (there arguably never was) other than money for the mobile OS vendors.
  - IanCal 5y ago
    On the other hand, my android phone works reliably for ... I don't know weeks? Months? I only restart for major update. My Ubuntu laptop after a straight install didn't turn off properly, my Ubuntu desktop regularly has chrome crash and fails to wake up the screen. I've had so many issues with basic Linux setups that I absolutely do not want that on my phone. I don't want a browser that's described as just "usable". I don't want zoom that goes absolutely nuts or a webcam that loves to decide some ports aren't OK. My phone works. I open it and it works. I've never been in a position where trying to fix the underlying OS was required nor could I picture it being something worth time I'd have to trade away from my family.
    - Agamus 5y ago
      I must be one of the lucky few. I've used Linux Mint as my main desktop for about 10 years now with zero problems. I've used LineageOS as my main phone OS for about 5 years now with zero problems. I run Windows for work and gaming, and run into issues regularly. Default Android/iPhone makes me a bit queasy.
    - usrn 5y ago
      I actually don't share your experience. My Linux machines are all more reliable than the best smartphones I've had. Flagship Android phones have been the worst in my experience, most can't make it a week without crashing, not to mention the awful battery life. Maybe it's because I know to be picky about PC hardware and don't run things like Chrome. >I don't want a browser that's described as just "usable". I have to wonder what exactly you do want then, maybe a parade? I get it though. You don't want the responsibility of configuring your device. That's fine, most people don't. This next thing you said really gets me though: > I've never been in a position where trying to fix the underlying OS was required nor could I picture it being something worth time I'd have to trade away from my family. You've been conditioned to feel helpless here. You've been told you can't fix things so you accept that they're broken and don't think about it. That's one reaction and in this situation it's probably healthier. For me it's like living in a house with crooked picture frames and the police showing up if you try to straiten them. It's a little upsetting for people to act like that's reasonable or ok.
mardifoufs 5y ago
I can do everything you said isn't possible without even modifying anything on my smartphone. Also, comparing PDAs to modern smartphone is just... inaccurate at best. PDAs were essentially devices that were looking for a purpose, with limited uses. And even for those uses they were very mediocre.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > Also, comparing PDAs to modern smartphone is just... inaccurate at best. No, it's not. Pinephone and Librem 5 can run practically any desktop software just fine and still serve as smartphones well. They're both smartphones and PDAs.
easrng 5y ago
You can have compilers on iOS with iSH which emulates an x86 processor and has a Linux syscall translation layer. https://iSH.app https://iSH.app On Android the situation is much better, you can use Termux and it runs things natively. For Android file transfer is easy, except on a Mac where IIRC you need to install a separate transfer tool. On Windows and Linux the file explorers come with support for the protocol used. (It's MTP I think?) For iOS with a non-Mac it's more complicated, IIRC for Windows you need iTunes and I never used my iOS device with Linux. You could mount the folder you want in iSH, start an SSH server, and tunnel it over USB to your computer with one of the usbmuxd tools (I don't remember what the specific command is) then copy the files with SFTP/SCP, but that's kinda overkill and would probably be slow.
- usrn 5y ago
  iSH is mindnumbingly slow and will chew through your battery in hours. My slow Pinephone with an Ancient Allwinner SoC that wasn't great when it was released runs circles around anything on iSH. Also if the screen turns off it kills your sockets so you get to start things like git clone over (which can take tens of minutes on a normal sized repo and will make the phone hot enough its uncomfortable to hold.) Also you can't multitask at all. And most importantly: The interesting thing about compilers is that you can generate native executable for the platform. gcc on iSH is generating executables for an interpreter which is no better than just messing around with javascript. >complicated File transfer stuff I can literally just scp things back and forth between my phone and computer, the UI is exaclty the same, no extra wires, no extra software and it doesn't matter what device I'm sitting in front of. On my Girlfriend's machine running Gnome I can even type the IP into the graphical shell and everything shows up like a local disk. If I had an MDNS responder set up it would be 100% point and click. If I had a Windows or OSX machine in the house it would just work with those too, no extra software needed (now that Windows ships with OpenSSH.) The UX for this is unbeatable by Apple and Google.
cjohansson 5y ago
Very good points, we have access to very powerful hardware in modern-day smartphones but the software is seriously limiting what can be done with it. My Nokia E71 from 10 years ago had a lot of nice features that I don't have in my iPhone á 2022
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sleepless 5y ago
"iOS struggles with XMPP" Is that so? Monal just received the 5.1.0 update and Siskin is also under active development. Then there is Snikket based on Siskin. Compared to 2017 this is quite the vivid XMPP landscape and development on all three apps is ongoing and the people behind the apps seem capable. You can use a bridge to even use IRC in your XMPP client. Editing txt files in NextCloud and having this by in sync on your other computers is great. Sure, iOS lags in both regards but it is not Apples priority to offer such solutions. They want to shove iCloud down the users throat. Just wanted to mention the existing and viable solutions.
- zaik 5y ago
  I still don't know what to recommend my friends on iOS for reliable OMEMO encryption and push notifications in group chats. Monal 5.1.0 was released yesterday so maybe it works now, but the state of XMPP on iOS is really not great.
yeetsfromhellL2 5y ago
I tried finding a decent text editor for android a little while ago and was not successful. FOSS git on iPad doesn't exist. SSH on either is very limited to say the least. An effective terminal is a pipe dream. Crapple and Scroogle have successfully turned the smartphone into a revenue generating device for themselves, and it's also a device our lives basically revolve around. I'd love to run a GNU/Linux (as opposed to Android/Linux) on my mobile device. The only thing I'd have to gripe about is a hardware keyboard.
jotm 5y ago
That's all iOS, though? You can do a lot with a rooted custom Android installation, modders never disappeared. Pretty much any file explorer can connect to network locations. The display is the biggest battery eater, but you can significantly extend lifetime by disabling mobile data and Wifi (use Bluetooth PAN kind of like on a PDA lol) and either undervolting, locking clocks low or disabling the performance cores, there are options. 10-12 hours screen on time even with Wifi on can be achieved.
simonh 5y ago
>Just editing fucking textfiles and copying it back to a normal PC (that isn't a mac) is a real bitch. Did Dropbox and Google Drive shut down service when I wasn't looking? Did the handful of code editors I use suddenly lose the ability to save text files? Did the Files app suddenly lose access to my iSH file system, rendering using Vi under Linux on my iPad impractical? No.... phew.

by usrn 5y ago

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago

> Just editing fucking textfiles and copying it back to a normal PC (that isn't a mac) is a real bitch. Especially if you don't have an internet connection. It's almost as bad as a ti84+ honestly. If you're on Android, I suggest looking at F-Droid; there exist decent text editors and file managers, and failing all else Termux manages to drag a decent amount of sanity in.

usrn 5y ago
I had an Android. Every update made Termux less and less capable (IIRC exec is very complex or impossible in a recent one.) Now I have a Pinephone running a normal X11 DE and I don't have to tolerate an ounce of stupidity. Sure there are legitimate good faith defects in the software but nothing is intentionally broken just for the sake of it. ssh just works (the phone shipped with it preinstalled) vim just works scp just works All my X11 apps just work All the scripts and little tools I've built up over the years just work (no fighting with namespaces when you switch to root or other weird Android nonsense.) All my dev tools just work (and you might say "well why would I ever want that on a phone? Because when you find a bug in the OS or an app and you're sitting on transit you can fix it right then and there. No making mental notes, no filling out issues, just slow continuous improvement. Something these mobile OSes will never have.) Desktop Firefox just works (even without touchscreen mode it's usable. With xinput2 enabled it has nice gesture support.) Want something to run in the background? Just open an Xterm window, run it, and minimize it. Want it to start on boot? Add it to the default runlevel or your X session just like you would on any other computer. There's absolutely no reason for any of the mobile nonsense (there arguably never was) other than money for the mobile OS vendors.
- IanCal 5y ago
  On the other hand, my android phone works reliably for ... I don't know weeks? Months? I only restart for major update. My Ubuntu laptop after a straight install didn't turn off properly, my Ubuntu desktop regularly has chrome crash and fails to wake up the screen. I've had so many issues with basic Linux setups that I absolutely do not want that on my phone. I don't want a browser that's described as just "usable". I don't want zoom that goes absolutely nuts or a webcam that loves to decide some ports aren't OK. My phone works. I open it and it works. I've never been in a position where trying to fix the underlying OS was required nor could I picture it being something worth time I'd have to trade away from my family.
  - Agamus 5y ago
    I must be one of the lucky few. I've used Linux Mint as my main desktop for about 10 years now with zero problems. I've used LineageOS as my main phone OS for about 5 years now with zero problems. I run Windows for work and gaming, and run into issues regularly. Default Android/iPhone makes me a bit queasy.
  - usrn 5y ago
    I actually don't share your experience. My Linux machines are all more reliable than the best smartphones I've had. Flagship Android phones have been the worst in my experience, most can't make it a week without crashing, not to mention the awful battery life. Maybe it's because I know to be picky about PC hardware and don't run things like Chrome. >I don't want a browser that's described as just "usable". I have to wonder what exactly you do want then, maybe a parade? I get it though. You don't want the responsibility of configuring your device. That's fine, most people don't. This next thing you said really gets me though: > I've never been in a position where trying to fix the underlying OS was required nor could I picture it being something worth time I'd have to trade away from my family. You've been conditioned to feel helpless here. You've been told you can't fix things so you accept that they're broken and don't think about it. That's one reaction and in this situation it's probably healthier. For me it's like living in a house with crooked picture frames and the police showing up if you try to straiten them. It's a little upsetting for people to act like that's reasonable or ok.

mardifoufs 5y ago

I can do everything you said isn't possible without even modifying anything on my smartphone. Also, comparing PDAs to modern smartphone is just... inaccurate at best. PDAs were essentially devices that were looking for a purpose, with limited uses. And even for those uses they were very mediocre.

fsflover 5y ago
> Also, comparing PDAs to modern smartphone is just... inaccurate at best. No, it's not. Pinephone and Librem 5 can run practically any desktop software just fine and still serve as smartphones well. They're both smartphones and PDAs.

easrng 5y ago

You can have compilers on iOS with iSH which emulates an x86 processor and has a Linux syscall translation layer. https://iSH.app https://iSH.app On Android the situation is much better, you can use Termux and it runs things natively. For Android file transfer is easy, except on a Mac where IIRC you need to install a separate transfer tool. On Windows and Linux the file explorers come with support for the protocol used. (It's MTP I think?) For iOS with a non-Mac it's more complicated, IIRC for Windows you need iTunes and I never used my iOS device with Linux. You could mount the folder you want in iSH, start an SSH server, and tunnel it over USB to your computer with one of the usbmuxd tools (I don't remember what the specific command is) then copy the files with SFTP/SCP, but that's kinda overkill and would probably be slow.

usrn 5y ago
iSH is mindnumbingly slow and will chew through your battery in hours. My slow Pinephone with an Ancient Allwinner SoC that wasn't great when it was released runs circles around anything on iSH. Also if the screen turns off it kills your sockets so you get to start things like git clone over (which can take tens of minutes on a normal sized repo and will make the phone hot enough its uncomfortable to hold.) Also you can't multitask at all. And most importantly: The interesting thing about compilers is that you can generate native executable for the platform. gcc on iSH is generating executables for an interpreter which is no better than just messing around with javascript. >complicated File transfer stuff I can literally just scp things back and forth between my phone and computer, the UI is exaclty the same, no extra wires, no extra software and it doesn't matter what device I'm sitting in front of. On my Girlfriend's machine running Gnome I can even type the IP into the graphical shell and everything shows up like a local disk. If I had an MDNS responder set up it would be 100% point and click. If I had a Windows or OSX machine in the house it would just work with those too, no extra software needed (now that Windows ships with OpenSSH.) The UX for this is unbeatable by Apple and Google.

cjohansson 5y ago

Very good points, we have access to very powerful hardware in modern-day smartphones but the software is seriously limiting what can be done with it. My Nokia E71 from 10 years ago had a lot of nice features that I don't have in my iPhone á 2022

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sleepless 5y ago

"iOS struggles with XMPP" Is that so? Monal just received the 5.1.0 update and Siskin is also under active development. Then there is Snikket based on Siskin. Compared to 2017 this is quite the vivid XMPP landscape and development on all three apps is ongoing and the people behind the apps seem capable. You can use a bridge to even use IRC in your XMPP client. Editing txt files in NextCloud and having this by in sync on your other computers is great. Sure, iOS lags in both regards but it is not Apples priority to offer such solutions. They want to shove iCloud down the users throat. Just wanted to mention the existing and viable solutions.

zaik 5y ago
I still don't know what to recommend my friends on iOS for reliable OMEMO encryption and push notifications in group chats. Monal 5.1.0 was released yesterday so maybe it works now, but the state of XMPP on iOS is really not great.

yeetsfromhellL2 5y ago

I tried finding a decent text editor for android a little while ago and was not successful. FOSS git on iPad doesn't exist. SSH on either is very limited to say the least. An effective terminal is a pipe dream. Crapple and Scroogle have successfully turned the smartphone into a revenue generating device for themselves, and it's also a device our lives basically revolve around. I'd love to run a GNU/Linux (as opposed to Android/Linux) on my mobile device. The only thing I'd have to gripe about is a hardware keyboard.

jotm 5y ago

That's all iOS, though? You can do a lot with a rooted custom Android installation, modders never disappeared. Pretty much any file explorer can connect to network locations. The display is the biggest battery eater, but you can significantly extend lifetime by disabling mobile data and Wifi (use Bluetooth PAN kind of like on a PDA lol) and either undervolting, locking clocks low or disabling the performance cores, there are options. 10-12 hours screen on time even with Wifi on can be achieved.

simonh 5y ago

>Just editing fucking textfiles and copying it back to a normal PC (that isn't a mac) is a real bitch. Did Dropbox and Google Drive shut down service when I wasn't looking? Did the handful of code editors I use suddenly lose the ability to save text files? Did the Files app suddenly lose access to my iSH file system, rendering using Vi under Linux on my iPad impractical? No.... phew.