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I know you're going to get downvoted to hell, but I'm going to give you an upvote. Many people who have enough leisure time to spend on HN and Reddit just don'

by apohn 4y ago

I know you're going to get downvoted to hell, but I'm going to give you an upvote. Many people who have enough leisure time to spend on HN and Reddit just don't understand the conditions many people grow up in. Not just India and Pakistan, but Philippines, Indonesia, and all the countries where you see economic migrants to any gulf country. Imagine growing up in unbelievable poverty with no educational opportunities or support, and with the external and internal pressure to financially support your siblings, parents, family and so they can survive and not just repeat the cycle you were born into. It's an insane situation, and the only solution humans seem to have come up with is to encourage people with money buy stuff that's made by people who cannot afford that same stuff. In one country it's tall buildings, in another it's phones and t-shirts.

munk-a 4y ago
I mean - that's sort of the ultra-capitalist creed right? It's impossible for us to solve poverty in any manner other than exporting work to make cheap t-shirts and since slavery is close to the same level of suffering it must be alright? Global wealth inequality issues are certainly not easy to solve, but we don't just need to shrug and say "I guess that's the way the world needs to work" - there is an extreme amount of excess in western countries, we've got several people who have literally nothing better to do with their money than launch private rockets into space for PR so I don't think it's fair to say "it's near- slavery or t-shirts". As the wealthiest nation on earth and the never-sated consumer that drives most of the world's economy America is in a position where it can demand better working conditions, it can say t-shirts at walmart can't reasonably cost 5$... but it is choosing not to do so. And, with all that said, the UAE in it's (hopefully now in the past) passport seizing days was still far worse.
- apohn 4y ago
  >And, with all that said, the UAE in it's (hopefully now in the past) passport seizing days was still far worse. Honestly, when I lived in UAE I had to submit my passport to a centralized system that held the passports of people who worked in that commercial area. To this day I don't know if I had to legally give them my passport or if my employer simply encouraged me to do it and presented it to me as as if I didn't have a choice. A few weeks ago I had to take a sick family member to the emergency room here in the US at 3AM because they vomited blood. All medical resources online said it could not wait till morning as it could be internal bleeding. They were given an X-ray, an external exam by a nurse and a doctor, and told that it was a mild adverse reaction to some common medication and to swap to something else. Nothing to worry about. Time from leaving home to back home was 75 minutes, tops. Bill was $3500. My employer only offers HDHP options so a lot of that is on me once the insurance company and hospital are done playing their stupid games. I think all employers in UAE are required to provide health-insurance. Prior to that, everybody there legally had governmental healthcare, but that has changed as medical costs have risen private insurance has become an option. Thankfully I have insurance and I work in tech. It hits my budget and stings, I can afford to pay it. But if I didn't have health insurance and had family in my home country who depended on me sending money every month, that bill would have wrecked my life. I realize passports versus medical benefits is not a sensible comparison at all. Nobody seems to write stories about how governmental treatment of migrant workers in UAE has improved a lot over the last 2 decades. There's tons of room to improve, but it has gotten better.
  - rosndo 4y ago
    Yeah, this is not normal. Now before you can get a low-skilled worker visa you have to sit through an hour long lecture explaining your rights, they tell you over and over to not let anyone take your passport and who to call if someone does. These countries have been modernizing so fast that it’s really pointless to talk about how things were a couple of years ago. 2 years ago if someone said that this would happen people would probably have laughed at you https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/courts/2021/11/28/uaes-new-drug-laws-cut-sentences-and-end-mandatory-deportation-for-expats/ https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/courts/2021/11/28/uaes-n...

by apohn 4y ago

munk-a 4y ago

I mean - that's sort of the ultra-capitalist creed right? It's impossible for us to solve poverty in any manner other than exporting work to make cheap t-shirts and since slavery is close to the same level of suffering it must be alright? Global wealth inequality issues are certainly not easy to solve, but we don't just need to shrug and say "I guess that's the way the world needs to work" - there is an extreme amount of excess in western countries, we've got several people who have literally nothing better to do with their money than launch private rockets into space for PR so I don't think it's fair to say "it's near- slavery or t-shirts". As the wealthiest nation on earth and the never-sated consumer that drives most of the world's economy America is in a position where it can demand better working conditions, it can say t-shirts at walmart can't reasonably cost 5$... but it is choosing not to do so. And, with all that said, the UAE in it's (hopefully now in the past) passport seizing days was still far worse.

apohn 4y ago
>And, with all that said, the UAE in it's (hopefully now in the past) passport seizing days was still far worse. Honestly, when I lived in UAE I had to submit my passport to a centralized system that held the passports of people who worked in that commercial area. To this day I don't know if I had to legally give them my passport or if my employer simply encouraged me to do it and presented it to me as as if I didn't have a choice. A few weeks ago I had to take a sick family member to the emergency room here in the US at 3AM because they vomited blood. All medical resources online said it could not wait till morning as it could be internal bleeding. They were given an X-ray, an external exam by a nurse and a doctor, and told that it was a mild adverse reaction to some common medication and to swap to something else. Nothing to worry about. Time from leaving home to back home was 75 minutes, tops. Bill was $3500. My employer only offers HDHP options so a lot of that is on me once the insurance company and hospital are done playing their stupid games. I think all employers in UAE are required to provide health-insurance. Prior to that, everybody there legally had governmental healthcare, but that has changed as medical costs have risen private insurance has become an option. Thankfully I have insurance and I work in tech. It hits my budget and stings, I can afford to pay it. But if I didn't have health insurance and had family in my home country who depended on me sending money every month, that bill would have wrecked my life. I realize passports versus medical benefits is not a sensible comparison at all. Nobody seems to write stories about how governmental treatment of migrant workers in UAE has improved a lot over the last 2 decades. There's tons of room to improve, but it has gotten better.
- rosndo 4y ago
  Yeah, this is not normal. Now before you can get a low-skilled worker visa you have to sit through an hour long lecture explaining your rights, they tell you over and over to not let anyone take your passport and who to call if someone does. These countries have been modernizing so fast that it’s really pointless to talk about how things were a couple of years ago. 2 years ago if someone said that this would happen people would probably have laughed at you https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/courts/2021/11/28/uaes-new-drug-laws-cut-sentences-and-end-mandatory-deportation-for-expats/ https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/courts/2021/11/28/uaes-n...