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> Don't smartphones... kind of suck? How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? Do you have a drawer of random crap with a growing pil

> Don't smartphones... kind of suck? How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? Do you have a drawer of random crap with a growing pile of phones? I simply cannot relate with this hook. > Don't smartphones... kind of suck? No, smartphones are kinda magical. They take better snapshots than my first DSLR, they play games at higher fidelity than my first gaming PC, and they’re general purpose computing devices with better battery life, connectivity, and portability than my first laptop. > How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? Twice. My first smartphone was the Nexus 4 way back in 2012. I moved on to iPhone with iPhone 6s, and then upgraded to iPhone 12 Mini last year because I was enraptured by the faster performance, better camera, and small size. > Do you have a drawer of random crap with a growing pile of phones? I definitely have a random crap drawer, but it contains no phones. My Nexus 4 went on to become a dev testing device until it was resold for parts. My iPhone 6s still sits in my drone bag so I can use it to control the drone while shooting other video on my 12 Mini. —- I dunno, I just can’t relate to the problems presented. Maybe it’s because I have only gotten top-of-the-line devices from companies who promised software longevity. Maybe it’s because I didn’t feel financially well off enough to jump on the upgrade cycle (until recently) and made do with older/slower devices for longer than most people. But the world of smartphones, from my perspective, kicks ass.

throwaway71271 5y ago
> general purpose computing devices not so general, you can pretty much only run programs allowed by the mothership, and if some neural net decides you can be locked out of your phone forever
- arbitrage 5y ago
  You are purposely taking the well known and understood term "general purpose computing device" out of context and using it as a polemical statement to push an agenda.
  - mort96 5y ago
    Nah. It's not outrageous to say that a criteria for being a "general purpose computing device" is that I should be able to run whatever code I want on it. I say this as someone who's an iPhone user, and I'm perfectly happy with my iPhone. But I wouldn't call it a general purpose computing device honestly. The Android phone I used many years ago, for all its flaws, would have fit that description much better IMO.
    - feanaro 5y ago
      > It's not outrageous to say that a criteria for being a "general purpose computing device" is that I should be able to run whatever code I want on it. In fact, it is outrageous not to say so.
  - throwaway71271 5y ago
    "general purpose" for me means I can set the program counter somewhere and run my code in general the term vaguely means 'this computer can perform many different tasks' but can an iphone perform a task you want, but apple did not allow?
    - sumeno 5y ago
      Yes, you can run your own code on an iPhone. You can't run arbitrary binaries, but you can run whatever code you want.
      - Hackbraten 5y ago
        Are we talking about the same phone? The iOS kernel will literally kill your process unless you have an Apple-approved certificate. The kernel will also block you from accessing any OS service that’s not allowlisted in your certificate. And it’s impossible to obtain a certificate from Apple that allows you to fork a subprocess, access the filesystem, or run a custom hardware driver.
      - paskozdilar 5y ago
        > You can't run arbitrary binaries, but you can run whatever code you want. ...isn't the definition of "running whatever code you want" equivalent to "running arbitrary binaries"? How else could you "run code" if not as an "arbitrary binary"?
robbyking 5y ago
> How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? Twice. Me too! And I'm a mobile engineer! My partner only recently updated their iPhone 6s, and I upgrade when the need arises, not when there's something new and shinny on the market.
- chasil 5y ago
  Running Lineage on AT&T has drastically reduced the number of compatible phones due to the hard requirement for VoLTE (voice over LTE) on a small set of authorized phones. I had just upgraded my OnePlus 3 to a 5 when this was announced, so I purchased a Pixel 3a XL by the deadline (which fortunately has VoLTE in AOSP). I moved my phone to Verizon for a few reasons, but Lineage struggles with VoLTE and this is a big reason for old phones in a drawer.
jrm4 5y ago
You completely lost me at "they're general purpose computing devices." This is not even remotely a reasonable definition of today's smartphones.
- synicalx 5y ago
  I beg to differ. They might not be suitable for "power users" or Stallman but for most people they're fine. I've got at least a few non-technical friends that haven't owned a laptop or PC in years and do all their "computing" from their phone and maybe an iPad. The only reason my parents still have a computer is because they like to look at their photos on a large screen, but outside of that one use-case (which could be solved in other ways) they barely ever turn their PC on. You can bank, search, chat, consume content, and shop from one device - it doesn't get much more "general purpose" than that.
  - spacexsucks 5y ago
    I beg to differ. They are higly optimized attention seeking monsters with side "benefits". They will turn on you thr momemnt google/apple so choose.
    - synicalx 5y ago
      Right but that doesn't make them any less useful as a general purpose computing device - they still serve that function perfectly well with or without them slowly eroding our mental capacity and stealing all our data.
      - fsflover 5y ago
        > They will turn on you thr momemnt google/apple so choose. > Right but that doesn't make them any less useful Sounds like a contradiction to me. If you can't do anything you want with your phone but Google/Apple can, it must make it less useful for you.
  - scns 5y ago
    Shop at higher prices for smartphone users.
elzbardico 5y ago
The same here. Bought a 12 Pro Max last year, expect to still be using it by 2024/25
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
toastercat 5y ago
> No, smartphones are kinda magical. They take better snapshots than my first DSLR, they play games at higher fidelity than my first gaming PC I think the problem with smartphones doesn't lie so much in hardware as it does the software ecosystem. Yeah, my phone also takes better snapshots than my first DSLR and plays games better than my first gaming PC (from 2001) -- and yet, it can't run the OfferUp app or Google Maps for more than 5 minutes without freezing up. >> How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? >Twice. My first smartphone was the Nexus 4 way back in 2012. I moved on to iPhone with iPhone 6s, and then upgraded to iPhone 12 Mini last year because I was enraptured by the faster performance, better camera, and small size. I had to replace my Thinkpad 0 times in the past 10 years, and my phone 2 times as well. I also bought devices from companies who promised software longevity. But why can't I replace my phone 0 times in 10 years like my Thinkpad?

throwaway71271 5y ago

> general purpose computing devices not so general, you can pretty much only run programs allowed by the mothership, and if some neural net decides you can be locked out of your phone forever

arbitrage 5y ago
You are purposely taking the well known and understood term "general purpose computing device" out of context and using it as a polemical statement to push an agenda.
- mort96 5y ago
  Nah. It's not outrageous to say that a criteria for being a "general purpose computing device" is that I should be able to run whatever code I want on it. I say this as someone who's an iPhone user, and I'm perfectly happy with my iPhone. But I wouldn't call it a general purpose computing device honestly. The Android phone I used many years ago, for all its flaws, would have fit that description much better IMO.
  - feanaro 5y ago
    > It's not outrageous to say that a criteria for being a "general purpose computing device" is that I should be able to run whatever code I want on it. In fact, it is outrageous not to say so.
- throwaway71271 5y ago
  "general purpose" for me means I can set the program counter somewhere and run my code in general the term vaguely means 'this computer can perform many different tasks' but can an iphone perform a task you want, but apple did not allow?
  - sumeno 5y ago
    Yes, you can run your own code on an iPhone. You can't run arbitrary binaries, but you can run whatever code you want.
    - Hackbraten 5y ago
      Are we talking about the same phone? The iOS kernel will literally kill your process unless you have an Apple-approved certificate. The kernel will also block you from accessing any OS service that’s not allowlisted in your certificate. And it’s impossible to obtain a certificate from Apple that allows you to fork a subprocess, access the filesystem, or run a custom hardware driver.
    - paskozdilar 5y ago
      > You can't run arbitrary binaries, but you can run whatever code you want. ...isn't the definition of "running whatever code you want" equivalent to "running arbitrary binaries"? How else could you "run code" if not as an "arbitrary binary"?

robbyking 5y ago

> How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? Twice. Me too! And I'm a mobile engineer! My partner only recently updated their iPhone 6s, and I upgrade when the need arises, not when there's something new and shinny on the market.

chasil 5y ago
Running Lineage on AT&T has drastically reduced the number of compatible phones due to the hard requirement for VoLTE (voice over LTE) on a small set of authorized phones. I had just upgraded my OnePlus 3 to a 5 when this was announced, so I purchased a Pixel 3a XL by the deadline (which fortunately has VoLTE in AOSP). I moved my phone to Verizon for a few reasons, but Lineage struggles with VoLTE and this is a big reason for old phones in a drawer.

jrm4 5y ago

You completely lost me at "they're general purpose computing devices." This is not even remotely a reasonable definition of today's smartphones.

synicalx 5y ago
I beg to differ. They might not be suitable for "power users" or Stallman but for most people they're fine. I've got at least a few non-technical friends that haven't owned a laptop or PC in years and do all their "computing" from their phone and maybe an iPad. The only reason my parents still have a computer is because they like to look at their photos on a large screen, but outside of that one use-case (which could be solved in other ways) they barely ever turn their PC on. You can bank, search, chat, consume content, and shop from one device - it doesn't get much more "general purpose" than that.
- spacexsucks 5y ago
  I beg to differ. They are higly optimized attention seeking monsters with side "benefits". They will turn on you thr momemnt google/apple so choose.
  - synicalx 5y ago
    Right but that doesn't make them any less useful as a general purpose computing device - they still serve that function perfectly well with or without them slowly eroding our mental capacity and stealing all our data.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      > They will turn on you thr momemnt google/apple so choose. > Right but that doesn't make them any less useful Sounds like a contradiction to me. If you can't do anything you want with your phone but Google/Apple can, it must make it less useful for you.
- scns 5y ago
  Shop at higher prices for smartphone users.

elzbardico 5y ago

The same here. Bought a 12 Pro Max last year, expect to still be using it by 2024/25

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

toastercat 5y ago

> No, smartphones are kinda magical. They take better snapshots than my first DSLR, they play games at higher fidelity than my first gaming PC I think the problem with smartphones doesn't lie so much in hardware as it does the software ecosystem. Yeah, my phone also takes better snapshots than my first DSLR and plays games better than my first gaming PC (from 2001) -- and yet, it can't run the OfferUp app or Google Maps for more than 5 minutes without freezing up. >> How many times have you had to replace a phone in the past 10 years? >Twice. My first smartphone was the Nexus 4 way back in 2012. I moved on to iPhone with iPhone 6s, and then upgraded to iPhone 12 Mini last year because I was enraptured by the faster performance, better camera, and small size. I had to replace my Thinkpad 0 times in the past 10 years, and my phone 2 times as well. I also bought devices from companies who promised software longevity. But why can't I replace my phone 0 times in 10 years like my Thinkpad?