4 ms·

Just like the Linux desktop, alternative smartphones will forever remain a tiny niche market for highly technical people. Mainstream adoption can and will never

by hrbf 4y ago

Just like the Linux desktop, alternative smartphones will forever remain a tiny niche market for highly technical people. Mainstream adoption can and will never happen given the current state of hardware design and manufacturing.

fartcannon 4y ago
Please elaborate on how the current state of hardware design and manufacturing ensures that mainstream adoption will can and will never happen.
- atonalfreerider 4y ago
  OP might be confusing hardware design and manufacturing with software availability. I have wanted to switch from Windows to Linux so many times, and I would love to ditch my Google phone for PinePhone. But for me, this always gets back to the problem of well-maintained software on Linux vs corporate systems. The last time I tried switching to Linux a few months ago, all of the programs I use on a regular basis had some impossibly complicated setup or program-crashing bugs (that I reported) that made me give up after a few days trying to migrate. Don't get me wrong, the OS (Ubuntu) installed just fine and I was able to browse the internet (which should be sufficient for most people). But anything beyond turning the phone on and having everything self-setup is asking way too much from a mainstream user. Therefore, this argument is always an economic one - not a conceptual one. You need a greedy corporation that is incentivized to make a friction-free experience for the end user. Too many well-meaning, but way too smart for their own good developers think everyone else thinks like them. https://xkcd.com/456/ https://xkcd.com/456/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlg4K16ujFw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlg4K16ujFw
- hrbf 4y ago
  > You need a greedy corporation that is incentivized to make a friction-free experience for the end user. Too many well-meaning, but way too smart for their own good developers think everyone else thinks like them. That goes for software as well as hardware. Plus, hardware needs a certain quality and price point, both of which are in short supply. Everyone who’s tried designing and shipping a quality hardware product at a reasonable price in a reasonable time frame has experienced that. Even if you magically could solve one of the issues, you’d never be able to ship the sheer volume to satisfy demand. And that’s all before even attempting to create a smooth and complete software experience, not to speak of software quality and security issues. Also, don’t underestimate the novelty factor in mainstream products, which is directly at odds with the goals of open source hardware and software developers.
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    Don't underestimate the average users ability to do something they think is cool.
- usrn 4y ago
zaik 4y ago
If I get the usability of today's Linux desktops I'm completely fine with that. I don't care if my setup is widespread or not if it works for me.
- hrbf 4y ago
  Fair enough. You do you. Freedom to choose can be a good thing. It won’t scale though. You need one unifying, well-made, default experience for that.
elzbardico 4y ago
And highly technical people with time to spare in an expensive hobby.
jaimex2 4y ago
It doesn't really matter as the mainstream desktops moves more and more to just being a thin client that can run a web browser.

by hrbf 4y ago

fartcannon 4y ago

Please elaborate on how the current state of hardware design and manufacturing ensures that mainstream adoption will can and will never happen.

atonalfreerider 4y ago
OP might be confusing hardware design and manufacturing with software availability. I have wanted to switch from Windows to Linux so many times, and I would love to ditch my Google phone for PinePhone. But for me, this always gets back to the problem of well-maintained software on Linux vs corporate systems. The last time I tried switching to Linux a few months ago, all of the programs I use on a regular basis had some impossibly complicated setup or program-crashing bugs (that I reported) that made me give up after a few days trying to migrate. Don't get me wrong, the OS (Ubuntu) installed just fine and I was able to browse the internet (which should be sufficient for most people). But anything beyond turning the phone on and having everything self-setup is asking way too much from a mainstream user. Therefore, this argument is always an economic one - not a conceptual one. You need a greedy corporation that is incentivized to make a friction-free experience for the end user. Too many well-meaning, but way too smart for their own good developers think everyone else thinks like them. https://xkcd.com/456/ https://xkcd.com/456/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlg4K16ujFw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlg4K16ujFw
hrbf 4y ago
> You need a greedy corporation that is incentivized to make a friction-free experience for the end user. Too many well-meaning, but way too smart for their own good developers think everyone else thinks like them. That goes for software as well as hardware. Plus, hardware needs a certain quality and price point, both of which are in short supply. Everyone who’s tried designing and shipping a quality hardware product at a reasonable price in a reasonable time frame has experienced that. Even if you magically could solve one of the issues, you’d never be able to ship the sheer volume to satisfy demand. And that’s all before even attempting to create a smooth and complete software experience, not to speak of software quality and security issues. Also, don’t underestimate the novelty factor in mainstream products, which is directly at odds with the goals of open source hardware and software developers.
- fartcannon 4y ago
  Don't underestimate the average users ability to do something they think is cool.
usrn 4y ago

zaik 4y ago

If I get the usability of today's Linux desktops I'm completely fine with that. I don't care if my setup is widespread or not if it works for me.

hrbf 4y ago
Fair enough. You do you. Freedom to choose can be a good thing. It won’t scale though. You need one unifying, well-made, default experience for that.

elzbardico 4y ago

And highly technical people with time to spare in an expensive hobby.

jaimex2 4y ago

It doesn't really matter as the mainstream desktops moves more and more to just being a thin client that can run a web browser.