14 ms·

tell ya what i really wanna see from pinephone: AGPS lockdown. Currently ive learned from HN there are numerous 3GPP protocols that provide direct, clandestine

tell ya what i really wanna see from pinephone: AGPS lockdown. Currently ive learned from HN there are numerous 3GPP protocols that provide direct, clandestine monitoring of the GPS location of the phone. the feature lives unchallenged in the firmware, so if you can give me a phone that cannot report its GPS data to the carrier without my knowledge, id be ever grateful.

tinus_hn 5y ago
I don’t think the 911 rules allow such a phone to be sold in the US.
mikece 5y ago
Does the carrier sell this information? There are many/most apps that I don't allow to get location data and that's because, in my judgement, they don't need it and I don't trust them not to sell it: I can opt out. But if the carriers are actively gathering my location information and are selling it without giving me a way to opt out then perhaps I need to think about my phone as something I turn off most of the time. Which reminds me: can you still get pager service?
- Ardon 5y ago
  Cell carriers would generally be tracking you via cell tower triangulation, which can't be rebuffed with software, but that's why the PinePhone has a switch to physically power off the modem (and thus antenna) which does prevent that tracking.
- sp332 5y ago
  This is from 2019 but I've lost track of what happened since then. https://www.wired.com/story/carriers-sell-location-data-third-parties-privacy/ https://www.wired.com/story/carriers-sell-location-data-thir...
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  Carriers sell location data, yes.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
asojfdowgh 5y ago
IIRC you can flash the modem for pinephones, so it would be possible to achieve what you want in the future
opencl 5y ago
You can install your own firmware on the Pinephone modem. https://github.com/Biktorgj/pinephone_modem_sdk https://github.com/Biktorgj/pinephone_modem_sdk
nemothekid 5y ago
>give me a phone that cannot report its GPS data to the carrier without my knowledge Does this work by reporting GPS data? I thought this data was acquired with cellular triangulation.
kjellsbells 5y ago
that feels like a legal hurdle not a technical one. The carrier is obliged by the regulator (eg US FCC) to be able to locate the phone to within a few meters of accuracy without relying on user action in order to meet their commitments around emergency service. The problem here isnt the collection of data, its the abuse of that data whether its sale to data brokers or over enthusiastic law enforcement using GPS pings on flimsy pretexts to sweep people up.
- Aerroon 5y ago
  As long as the data is collected in the first place it will be abused. The only way to stop the abuse of this data is to stop the collection. The emergency services commitment just gives them a convenient excuse to require it.
_rdvw 5y ago
My DivestOS: - removes most Qualcomm location blobs - removes carrier OMA-DM blobs - doesn't send IMEI to SUPL server - only allows SUPL override when an emergency call is active - disables A-GPS MSA mode - and shows a notification when location is requested via SUPL
- xanaxagoras 5y ago
  This looks really cool. If sunfish changes from "Broken" I'll give it a try.
phh 5y ago
I don't understand what is it you call "AGPS lockdown" 3GPP is usually used in the context of AGPS to help GPS get a lock, by using the ID of the tower your 3GPP UE is connected to. There is one such tower, and there is simply no way to hide it. It is a technical requirement for your carrier to have an approximate location of your equipment. Even if they wished they didn't have it, they would still need it. A phone doesn't have its GPS turned on permanently, because it eats a lot of battery, and sure some carriers and some OEMs have some backdoors (Sprint last I've seen) to request a GPS position, though AFAIK it can't be enabled in most cases. Is this what you're talking about? As far as I know, taking a "stupid" modem (Say an exynos one), and putting a custom ROM should make you safe from it, because from what I've seen, those backdoors are done in Samsung Android framework If your question is about E911 (which is lockdown to... well... 911 calls), can't say that I know much about it, but I think what I said on the previous point still applies. On a dumb modem BTW, PinePhone's modem being a Qualcomm, it is very "smart", and does a lot of things behind Application Processor's back. A Mediatek, or better an Exynos modem is much better to that regard, and would be preferable. (but there is no pinephone on non-qc modem)

tinus_hn 5y ago

I don’t think the 911 rules allow such a phone to be sold in the US.

mikece 5y ago

Does the carrier sell this information? There are many/most apps that I don't allow to get location data and that's because, in my judgement, they don't need it and I don't trust them not to sell it: I can opt out. But if the carriers are actively gathering my location information and are selling it without giving me a way to opt out then perhaps I need to think about my phone as something I turn off most of the time. Which reminds me: can you still get pager service?

Ardon 5y ago
Cell carriers would generally be tracking you via cell tower triangulation, which can't be rebuffed with software, but that's why the PinePhone has a switch to physically power off the modem (and thus antenna) which does prevent that tracking.
sp332 5y ago
This is from 2019 but I've lost track of what happened since then. https://www.wired.com/story/carriers-sell-location-data-third-parties-privacy/ https://www.wired.com/story/carriers-sell-location-data-thir...
heavyset_go 5y ago
Carriers sell location data, yes.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

asojfdowgh 5y ago

IIRC you can flash the modem for pinephones, so it would be possible to achieve what you want in the future

opencl 5y ago

You can install your own firmware on the Pinephone modem. https://github.com/Biktorgj/pinephone_modem_sdk https://github.com/Biktorgj/pinephone_modem_sdk

nemothekid 5y ago

>give me a phone that cannot report its GPS data to the carrier without my knowledge Does this work by reporting GPS data? I thought this data was acquired with cellular triangulation.

kjellsbells 5y ago

that feels like a legal hurdle not a technical one. The carrier is obliged by the regulator (eg US FCC) to be able to locate the phone to within a few meters of accuracy without relying on user action in order to meet their commitments around emergency service. The problem here isnt the collection of data, its the abuse of that data whether its sale to data brokers or over enthusiastic law enforcement using GPS pings on flimsy pretexts to sweep people up.

Aerroon 5y ago
As long as the data is collected in the first place it will be abused. The only way to stop the abuse of this data is to stop the collection. The emergency services commitment just gives them a convenient excuse to require it.

_rdvw 5y ago

My DivestOS: - removes most Qualcomm location blobs - removes carrier OMA-DM blobs - doesn't send IMEI to SUPL server - only allows SUPL override when an emergency call is active - disables A-GPS MSA mode - and shows a notification when location is requested via SUPL

xanaxagoras 5y ago
This looks really cool. If sunfish changes from "Broken" I'll give it a try.

phh 5y ago

I don't understand what is it you call "AGPS lockdown" 3GPP is usually used in the context of AGPS to help GPS get a lock, by using the ID of the tower your 3GPP UE is connected to. There is one such tower, and there is simply no way to hide it. It is a technical requirement for your carrier to have an approximate location of your equipment. Even if they wished they didn't have it, they would still need it. A phone doesn't have its GPS turned on permanently, because it eats a lot of battery, and sure some carriers and some OEMs have some backdoors (Sprint last I've seen) to request a GPS position, though AFAIK it can't be enabled in most cases. Is this what you're talking about? As far as I know, taking a "stupid" modem (Say an exynos one), and putting a custom ROM should make you safe from it, because from what I've seen, those backdoors are done in Samsung Android framework If your question is about E911 (which is lockdown to... well... 911 calls), can't say that I know much about it, but I think what I said on the previous point still applies. On a dumb modem BTW, PinePhone's modem being a Qualcomm, it is very "smart", and does a lot of things behind Application Processor's back. A Mediatek, or better an Exynos modem is much better to that regard, and would be preferable. (but there is no pinephone on non-qc modem)