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Why LineageOS and not GrapheneOS? I have a Pixel 4a with GrapheneOS and really like it. The lack of Firebase Cloud Messaging (Google's push notifications serv

by mikece 5y ago

Why LineageOS and not GrapheneOS? I have a Pixel 4a with GrapheneOS and really like it. The lack of Firebase Cloud Messaging (Google's push notifications service) isn't an issue for personal usage; for work I still use an iPhone because I don't want to put things like MS Teams on Graphene OS. As for PinePhone: it's interesting that this article puts LineageOS and PinePhone together since the latter cannot run the former. Speaking for myself, it would be nice if I could buy a phone from someone other than Google to install and use a de-Googled form of Android.

seanw444 5y ago
I wish GrapheneOS was available on OnePlus.
- _rdvw 5y ago
  Take a look at my DivestOS project, I support OnePlus 1-7 devices.
nabaraz 5y ago
The choice is between GrapheneOS + Sandboxed Google play vs LineageOS + MicroG. If you care too much about privacy, GrapheneOS is the way to go. If you want a balance between privacy and usability, LineageOS is the way to go. Also, GrapheneOS only supports Pixel phones. I have tried CalyxOS but there are too many issues.
- mikece 5y ago
  By "sandboxed Google Play" do you mean using the Aurora app? Coming from iPhone, something I keep forgetting is the full support for PWA apps on Graphene OS. I wish there were PWA versions of apps like Signal, Wire, ProtonMail, and more; so much cleaner to update the app through a deliberate refresh than going through a middle-man service like F-Droid.
  - tie_ 5y ago
    Word! PWAs are awesome (for a lot of usecases), and I don't quite get how they are not becoming a center pillar of mobile development.
  - tortasaur 5y ago
    They support actual Google Play Services in a sandbox: https://grapheneos.org/faq#google-services https://grapheneos.org/faq#google-services
- dtx1 5y ago
  > If you care too much about privacy, GrapheneOS is the way to go Not so sure about that. If you care about SECURITY than GrapheneOS is pretty much the best choice on the market, comparable only to iOS or bare Android on Pixel Phones. Everyone else isn't even reasonable to compare against it. But wether it's more private with sandboxed Google Play Services vs Lineage OS and MicroG or iOS is not such an obvious choice to me.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    If you want privacy, don't install anything Google or microG. Surprisingly many apps from Play store (via Aurora or sideloaded) still work (not all features though) - but if you want privacy, don't even use Play store via Aurora.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Not using Aurora and micro made banking impossible in my case... Well, I almost completely de-googled so I don't complain too much. Maybe keeping my old phone for banking only and using a pinephone for everything else would work, I have to investigate that!
      - emteycz 5y ago
        I just use the web version of internet banking. One of my banks doesn't have responsive website, but for sending money and setting card limits it's still more than enough.
        dtx1 5y ago
        Lots of banks require their particular 2FA Apps
        emteycz 5y ago
        Yeah, I went to the local branch, pulled out my old Nokia 3310 and asked them to install the app. They promptly switched me back to SMS auth.
- 0rdinant 5y ago
  Sanboxed Play Services nets more app compatibility than LineageOS+MicroG, I don't understand your usability argument.
- toastercat 5y ago
  What issues have you experienced with CalyxOS? Asking as a daily user of CalyxOS. I have not had any real issues, but I also don't install many apps on my phone.
  - throwing4321 5y ago
    For one, they recently were unable to give monthly security updates for 3 months or so.
- 0xdeadb00f 5y ago
  The "usability" thing is quite frankly, bullshit. Sandboxed play services is quite literally play services you're allowed to deny permissions to, it offers way more compatibility than microg which replaces play services with it's own thing
azalemeth 5y ago
The thing that annoys me about GrapheneOS is that it is not possible to install a sudo binary or to root the phone. I get that this is a Good Thing from a security perspective, but I don't like the fact that I can't install AdAway for resource-less adblocking with an edited hosts file, the ability to SSH into my phone with a certificate, or the ability to make good "nandroid" backups. I also philosophically like the fact that I'm in control, ultimately, of my device and if I want to send an app fake data, I can do so. The GrapheneOS developers have quite sternly said that they won't ever develop a rootable version of the OS, and that makes me sad.
- _rdvw 5y ago
  You can always compile it with any such changes baked in.
- commoner 5y ago
  There's also ProtonAOSP, which allows you to choose between no Google services, microG, sandboxed Google Play Services, and bundled Google Play Services: https://protonaosp.org/gapps https://protonaosp.org/gapps ProtonAOSP works with root, and the documentation explains how to use it with Magisk: https://protonaosp.org/root https://protonaosp.org/root ProtonAOSP also passes SafetyNet by default, as of right now. The developer of ProtonAOSP (kdrag0n) is also the GrapheneOS contributor who implemented the Google Play Services sandbox for that OS. ProtonAOSP supports the Pixel 4/XL, 4a/5G, 5, and 6/Pro. It does not currently support the Pixel 5a.
  - azalemeth 5y ago
    This looks fantastic – thank you. A pity I don't think it's compatible with my OnePlus 5, although there is a fork on Github.
foresto 5y ago
> Why LineageOS and not GrapheneOS? One problem with GrapheneOS is that it only supports a tiny handful of devices, and only for few years (at best) per device. A lot of people can't afford to keep buying Pixel phones on that schedule, and some who can afford it find the e-waste unappealing. This isn't exactly the project's fault. It's more a side effect of an industry that prevents customers from securely installing an OS on their own hardware, and/or refuses to provide firmware security updates beyond a rather short time frame. I hope that changes. I love what GrapheneOS attempts to do, but at the moment, I think using it is unreasonably hard on the budget and the environment.
- throwing4321 5y ago
  Starting from the current Google Pixel, Google will support them for at least 5 years.
  - foresto 5y ago
    Five years from when? The purchase date, or the product introduction date? If the latter, the effective support lifetime will be (on average) much shorter.
    - throwing4321 5y ago
      Product release date of course. Other devices compromise on security.
      - foresto 5y ago
        Indeed. Which brings us back to my original comment.
mhitza 5y ago
Seems like GrapheneOS officially supports a very small subset of devices, aka only Pixel phones right now https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices
the_biot 5y ago
Because GrapheneOS supports a handful of devices (https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices), where LineageOS supports hundreds of devices (https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/).

by mikece 5y ago

seanw444 5y ago

I wish GrapheneOS was available on OnePlus.

_rdvw 5y ago
Take a look at my DivestOS project, I support OnePlus 1-7 devices.

nabaraz 5y ago

The choice is between GrapheneOS + Sandboxed Google play vs LineageOS + MicroG. If you care too much about privacy, GrapheneOS is the way to go. If you want a balance between privacy and usability, LineageOS is the way to go. Also, GrapheneOS only supports Pixel phones. I have tried CalyxOS but there are too many issues.

mikece 5y ago
By "sandboxed Google Play" do you mean using the Aurora app? Coming from iPhone, something I keep forgetting is the full support for PWA apps on Graphene OS. I wish there were PWA versions of apps like Signal, Wire, ProtonMail, and more; so much cleaner to update the app through a deliberate refresh than going through a middle-man service like F-Droid.
- tie_ 5y ago
  Word! PWAs are awesome (for a lot of usecases), and I don't quite get how they are not becoming a center pillar of mobile development.
- tortasaur 5y ago
  They support actual Google Play Services in a sandbox: https://grapheneos.org/faq#google-services https://grapheneos.org/faq#google-services
dtx1 5y ago
> If you care too much about privacy, GrapheneOS is the way to go Not so sure about that. If you care about SECURITY than GrapheneOS is pretty much the best choice on the market, comparable only to iOS or bare Android on Pixel Phones. Everyone else isn't even reasonable to compare against it. But wether it's more private with sandboxed Google Play Services vs Lineage OS and MicroG or iOS is not such an obvious choice to me.
- emteycz 5y ago
  If you want privacy, don't install anything Google or microG. Surprisingly many apps from Play store (via Aurora or sideloaded) still work (not all features though) - but if you want privacy, don't even use Play store via Aurora.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Not using Aurora and micro made banking impossible in my case... Well, I almost completely de-googled so I don't complain too much. Maybe keeping my old phone for banking only and using a pinephone for everything else would work, I have to investigate that!
    - emteycz 5y ago
      I just use the web version of internet banking. One of my banks doesn't have responsive website, but for sending money and setting card limits it's still more than enough.
      - dtx1 5y ago
        Lots of banks require their particular 2FA Apps
        emteycz 5y ago
        Yeah, I went to the local branch, pulled out my old Nokia 3310 and asked them to install the app. They promptly switched me back to SMS auth.
0rdinant 5y ago
Sanboxed Play Services nets more app compatibility than LineageOS+MicroG, I don't understand your usability argument.
toastercat 5y ago
What issues have you experienced with CalyxOS? Asking as a daily user of CalyxOS. I have not had any real issues, but I also don't install many apps on my phone.
- throwing4321 5y ago
  For one, they recently were unable to give monthly security updates for 3 months or so.
0xdeadb00f 5y ago
The "usability" thing is quite frankly, bullshit. Sandboxed play services is quite literally play services you're allowed to deny permissions to, it offers way more compatibility than microg which replaces play services with it's own thing

azalemeth 5y ago

The thing that annoys me about GrapheneOS is that it is not possible to install a sudo binary or to root the phone. I get that this is a Good Thing from a security perspective, but I don't like the fact that I can't install AdAway for resource-less adblocking with an edited hosts file, the ability to SSH into my phone with a certificate, or the ability to make good "nandroid" backups. I also philosophically like the fact that I'm in control, ultimately, of my device and if I want to send an app fake data, I can do so. The GrapheneOS developers have quite sternly said that they won't ever develop a rootable version of the OS, and that makes me sad.

_rdvw 5y ago
You can always compile it with any such changes baked in.
commoner 5y ago
There's also ProtonAOSP, which allows you to choose between no Google services, microG, sandboxed Google Play Services, and bundled Google Play Services: https://protonaosp.org/gapps https://protonaosp.org/gapps ProtonAOSP works with root, and the documentation explains how to use it with Magisk: https://protonaosp.org/root https://protonaosp.org/root ProtonAOSP also passes SafetyNet by default, as of right now. The developer of ProtonAOSP (kdrag0n) is also the GrapheneOS contributor who implemented the Google Play Services sandbox for that OS. ProtonAOSP supports the Pixel 4/XL, 4a/5G, 5, and 6/Pro. It does not currently support the Pixel 5a.
- azalemeth 5y ago
  This looks fantastic – thank you. A pity I don't think it's compatible with my OnePlus 5, although there is a fork on Github.

foresto 5y ago

> Why LineageOS and not GrapheneOS? One problem with GrapheneOS is that it only supports a tiny handful of devices, and only for few years (at best) per device. A lot of people can't afford to keep buying Pixel phones on that schedule, and some who can afford it find the e-waste unappealing. This isn't exactly the project's fault. It's more a side effect of an industry that prevents customers from securely installing an OS on their own hardware, and/or refuses to provide firmware security updates beyond a rather short time frame. I hope that changes. I love what GrapheneOS attempts to do, but at the moment, I think using it is unreasonably hard on the budget and the environment.

throwing4321 5y ago
Starting from the current Google Pixel, Google will support them for at least 5 years.
- foresto 5y ago
  Five years from when? The purchase date, or the product introduction date? If the latter, the effective support lifetime will be (on average) much shorter.
  - throwing4321 5y ago
    Product release date of course. Other devices compromise on security.
    - foresto 5y ago
      Indeed. Which brings us back to my original comment.

mhitza 5y ago

Seems like GrapheneOS officially supports a very small subset of devices, aka only Pixel phones right now https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices

the_biot 5y ago

Because GrapheneOS supports a handful of devices (https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices), where LineageOS supports hundreds of devices (https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/).