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Thanks for the perspective, Glen. I've often heard this referred to as the "long tail" problem for satellite imagery providers. The area under the curve is enor

Thanks for the perspective, Glen. I've often heard this referred to as the "long tail" problem for satellite imagery providers. The area under the curve is enormous, but any one algorithm only serves an extremely niche audience. Another analogy I use a lot: satellite imagery is like salt. The dish can have lots of ingredients (in a military context: HUMINT, OSINT, SIGINT, etc.) And the satellite imagery can make the whole dish. But you never want to consume it in isolation, that would be disgusting.

GlenTheMachine 4y ago
That’s a good point: often the data product isn’t generated solely (or even mainly) from orbital imagery. Often it’s provided mainly from data the end user already has, and for which orbital imagery serves either as a cueing system (providing candidate locations which the end user will verify) or a verification system (providing final verification of locations the end user has already cued). Certainly that’s true with eg the petroleum industry, and big ag.
sandworm101 4y ago
>> but any one algorithm only serves an extremely niche audience. Forget the algorithm. They need to fix their customer service, their sales process. Customers want pixels, but they need basic services: simple and a predictable price. I want to give a location (pix+radius, four corners or whatever) and a delivery schedule (once a week etc). But when I try to buy that stuff I get package deals, "ask for a quote", and vague statements about times. That doesn't work. Normal customers, ie not intelligence agencies, don't want a drawn-out negotiation process. The first company that can provide a basic web interface for purchasing imagery quickly and piecemeal will win the market. Top of the list for small customers are probably high-end real estate agents. They want to monitor their neighborhoods for houses that are under delayed construction or backyards/pools that are being neglected (sure signs of someone ready to sell). Civil litigation attorneys: I want everything you have about this particular intersection. Cops: I want any images you have of this house between these dates. News agencies: There is a Russian ship on fire at X location. When can you get us an image? And a great many other small customers I cannot think of at the moment.
- derekbaker783 4y ago
  (US) Municipal governments that deal with Real Property have similar interests: they use the imagery to help maintain assessment data.
  - campchase 4y ago
    I would imagine major US/European cities are pretty well-served in this regard by annual and semi-annual aerial surveys. But that still leaves a lot of smaller cities who aren’t pro-actively covered by Nearmap/Hexagon/etc. They are part of the long, long tail that is criminally underserved today.
- campchase 4y ago
  I agree. The first time I wrote about this same frustration a couple years changed my whole life—it’s how I wound up at my current job and something I still believe in very deeply: https://joemorrison.medium.com/the-commercial-satellite-imagery-business-model-is-broken-6f0e437ec29d https://joemorrison.medium.com/the-commercial-satellite-imag...
- ackbar03 4y ago
  Regarding small customers such as the real estate agents, attorneys, and cops etc. is it actually economically profitable to serve people like them? I know satellites are getting cheaper but there are still limits to the cost of targeted image acquisition right? Is the price at which these customers are able and willing to pay enough to cover those costs? For example it'd be a cool feature to check where my food delivery man is at in real time through satellite imaging but that can't possibly be a profitable use case.
  - achow 4y ago
    Parent commentator's contention.. Pixels are there anyway, and infinitely scalable - you can sell exact same pixels to infinite number of people. So why not to make a very easy UX to extract the pixels of your choice as per customized timeline. It almost sounds foolish not to do it.

GlenTheMachine 4y ago

That’s a good point: often the data product isn’t generated solely (or even mainly) from orbital imagery. Often it’s provided mainly from data the end user already has, and for which orbital imagery serves either as a cueing system (providing candidate locations which the end user will verify) or a verification system (providing final verification of locations the end user has already cued). Certainly that’s true with eg the petroleum industry, and big ag.

sandworm101 4y ago

>> but any one algorithm only serves an extremely niche audience. Forget the algorithm. They need to fix their customer service, their sales process. Customers want pixels, but they need basic services: simple and a predictable price. I want to give a location (pix+radius, four corners or whatever) and a delivery schedule (once a week etc). But when I try to buy that stuff I get package deals, "ask for a quote", and vague statements about times. That doesn't work. Normal customers, ie not intelligence agencies, don't want a drawn-out negotiation process. The first company that can provide a basic web interface for purchasing imagery quickly and piecemeal will win the market. Top of the list for small customers are probably high-end real estate agents. They want to monitor their neighborhoods for houses that are under delayed construction or backyards/pools that are being neglected (sure signs of someone ready to sell). Civil litigation attorneys: I want everything you have about this particular intersection. Cops: I want any images you have of this house between these dates. News agencies: There is a Russian ship on fire at X location. When can you get us an image? And a great many other small customers I cannot think of at the moment.

derekbaker783 4y ago
(US) Municipal governments that deal with Real Property have similar interests: they use the imagery to help maintain assessment data.
- campchase 4y ago
  I would imagine major US/European cities are pretty well-served in this regard by annual and semi-annual aerial surveys. But that still leaves a lot of smaller cities who aren’t pro-actively covered by Nearmap/Hexagon/etc. They are part of the long, long tail that is criminally underserved today.
campchase 4y ago
I agree. The first time I wrote about this same frustration a couple years changed my whole life—it’s how I wound up at my current job and something I still believe in very deeply: https://joemorrison.medium.com/the-commercial-satellite-imagery-business-model-is-broken-6f0e437ec29d https://joemorrison.medium.com/the-commercial-satellite-imag...
ackbar03 4y ago
Regarding small customers such as the real estate agents, attorneys, and cops etc. is it actually economically profitable to serve people like them? I know satellites are getting cheaper but there are still limits to the cost of targeted image acquisition right? Is the price at which these customers are able and willing to pay enough to cover those costs? For example it'd be a cool feature to check where my food delivery man is at in real time through satellite imaging but that can't possibly be a profitable use case.
- achow 4y ago
  Parent commentator's contention.. Pixels are there anyway, and infinitely scalable - you can sell exact same pixels to infinite number of people. So why not to make a very easy UX to extract the pixels of your choice as per customized timeline. It almost sounds foolish not to do it.