4 ms·

The Laguiole flatware is beautiful. It is a true mark of craftsmanship, and it is priced as such. As much as I appreciate their elegance, I don't need a $100 s

by kemiller2002 4y ago

The Laguiole flatware is beautiful. It is a true mark of craftsmanship, and it is priced as such. As much as I appreciate their elegance, I don't need a $100 spoon to eat my cornflakes in the morning. We tolerate less poor design, because spending time on money on something which in the end is not truly worth the time or money is focusing on something unimportant to most people....especially at a job they most likely hate.

uniqueuid 4y ago
That's the thing. We spend a huge amount of time using computers. Considering not just the share of time but also the share of concentrated attention, they are an even more important object in our lives. Why would you not desire the tool you use to be the absolute best you can have? And if eating cornflakes is important to you, the Laguioles may be worth it. After all, they will probably last ten years or twenty. Compared to many completely irrelevant, even burdensome objects we own, that's not that much. Bruce Sterling once held a talk about minimalism and objects which stuck with me, long before Marie Condo commoditized the trend. He basically said: Spend a lot of money on things that you eat or put on your skin, on your bed, on your tools and beautiful objects. Get rid of the rest. At the core, what I cherish about Apple objects is that they don't steal my attention and efforts for some inferior, fake promise. Looking at them and using them is the same, there is hardly any broken promise. It's that integrity which counts.
- ProAm 4y ago
  TBF Apple sold very expensive laptops with shoddy faulty keyboards for YEARS. People idolize and idealize Apple but tend to ignore the faults and failures. I truly believe Apple does not respect their customers. They have some good product and some bad ones too.
  - alphabettsy 4y ago
    I think the keyboard issue was overblown given what we saw at work with those machines. That said, the one person on my team with a failed keyboard was able to get it fixed very easily. One thing that makes me tend to prefer Apple is the stores and support. I recall support for HP and VAIO computers being extremely painful. PC manufacturers have so many models they don’t even have parts available for a computer that was being sold last year. That was my experience with a Samsung laptop.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - ProAm 4y ago
      I think your experience was vastly different to the rest of the worlds [1][2][3] [1] https://m.signalvnoise.com/the-macbook-keyboard-fiasco-is-surely-worse-than-apple-thinks/ https://m.signalvnoise.com/the-macbook-keyboard-fiasco-is-su... [2] https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/4/21246223/macbook-keyboard-butterfly-magic-pro-apple-design https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/4/21246223/macbook-keyboard-... [3] https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/03/27/strn-kyboard https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/03/27/strn-kyboard [4] https://www.businessinsider.com/macbook-butterfly-keyboard-called-worst-product-in-apple-history-2019-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/macbook-butterfly-keyboard-c...
  - rusk 4y ago
    I think it was Ive who prioritised aesthetics over usability, an approach that I feel is inherently disrespectful to the paying users. The MacBooks have returned to form since he left. A post recommending Mac over Lenovo would have been untenable a year ago. Though perhaps I’m being overly harsh on Ive … have they sorted out spellcheck yet? The way they’ve conducted that the last while is I think some of the most disrespectful product management ive (should be I've) seen since Cadbury replaced quality chocolate with a drumming gorilla.
  - brimble 4y ago
    Apple stacked like 3 fuck-ups at once (going no-USB-C to only-USB-C in a single jump; the Touch Bar; the bad keyboards) but when I went looking for alternatives it seemed like I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face (that is, they were all still a lot worse in other ways, as they were back when I first started using a MacBook). I decided to just hold off a bit on new hardware rather than switching, and hope Apple came to their senses. After a little while, they mostly did. Apple's far from perfect—the competition just doesn't seem interested in actually competing.
  - C4K3 4y ago
    I have one of those macbook keyboards (2018 macbook pro) and it is easily the worst keyboard I have ever used. I do not understand how a keyboard like that could possibly have made it onto a $3000 laptop. Which is funny because the touchpad is by far the best touchpad I've ever used, it's the first touchpad I'd ever used that made me think a touchpad could compete with a mouse. It even made me start donating to the linux touchpad improvement project that got posted on HN [1]. My thinkpad is the exact opposite. Decent keyboard for a laptop but terrible touchpad. [1] https://www.gitclear.com/blog/linux_touchpad_update_december_2021 https://www.gitclear.com/blog/linux_touchpad_update_december...
- joeman1000 4y ago
  Great comment. I was agonising over whether I should buy a HHKB ($600 keyboard) and I came to a similar conclusion. I’m touching it and using it every single day for the next decade, it should be a joy to use. I can’t remember who said it, but: “An expensive tool upsets you once, when you purchase it. A cheap tool upsets you every single time you have to use it.” Computer people have to start seeing themselves as craftsman. You make a living using your tools (computer, screen, keyboard, desk, chair…), they should be the best you can afford!

uniqueuid 4y ago

That's the thing. We spend a huge amount of time using computers. Considering not just the share of time but also the share of concentrated attention, they are an even more important object in our lives. Why would you not desire the tool you use to be the absolute best you can have? And if eating cornflakes is important to you, the Laguioles may be worth it. After all, they will probably last ten years or twenty. Compared to many completely irrelevant, even burdensome objects we own, that's not that much. Bruce Sterling once held a talk about minimalism and objects which stuck with me, long before Marie Condo commoditized the trend. He basically said: Spend a lot of money on things that you eat or put on your skin, on your bed, on your tools and beautiful objects. Get rid of the rest. At the core, what I cherish about Apple objects is that they don't steal my attention and efforts for some inferior, fake promise. Looking at them and using them is the same, there is hardly any broken promise. It's that integrity which counts.

ProAm 4y ago
TBF Apple sold very expensive laptops with shoddy faulty keyboards for YEARS. People idolize and idealize Apple but tend to ignore the faults and failures. I truly believe Apple does not respect their customers. They have some good product and some bad ones too.
- alphabettsy 4y ago
  I think the keyboard issue was overblown given what we saw at work with those machines. That said, the one person on my team with a failed keyboard was able to get it fixed very easily. One thing that makes me tend to prefer Apple is the stores and support. I recall support for HP and VAIO computers being extremely painful. PC manufacturers have so many models they don’t even have parts available for a computer that was being sold last year. That was my experience with a Samsung laptop.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ProAm 4y ago
    I think your experience was vastly different to the rest of the worlds [1][2][3] [1] https://m.signalvnoise.com/the-macbook-keyboard-fiasco-is-surely-worse-than-apple-thinks/ https://m.signalvnoise.com/the-macbook-keyboard-fiasco-is-su... [2] https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/4/21246223/macbook-keyboard-butterfly-magic-pro-apple-design https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/4/21246223/macbook-keyboard-... [3] https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/03/27/strn-kyboard https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/03/27/strn-kyboard [4] https://www.businessinsider.com/macbook-butterfly-keyboard-called-worst-product-in-apple-history-2019-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/macbook-butterfly-keyboard-c...
- rusk 4y ago
  I think it was Ive who prioritised aesthetics over usability, an approach that I feel is inherently disrespectful to the paying users. The MacBooks have returned to form since he left. A post recommending Mac over Lenovo would have been untenable a year ago. Though perhaps I’m being overly harsh on Ive … have they sorted out spellcheck yet? The way they’ve conducted that the last while is I think some of the most disrespectful product management ive (should be I've) seen since Cadbury replaced quality chocolate with a drumming gorilla.
- brimble 4y ago
  Apple stacked like 3 fuck-ups at once (going no-USB-C to only-USB-C in a single jump; the Touch Bar; the bad keyboards) but when I went looking for alternatives it seemed like I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face (that is, they were all still a lot worse in other ways, as they were back when I first started using a MacBook). I decided to just hold off a bit on new hardware rather than switching, and hope Apple came to their senses. After a little while, they mostly did. Apple's far from perfect—the competition just doesn't seem interested in actually competing.
- C4K3 4y ago
  I have one of those macbook keyboards (2018 macbook pro) and it is easily the worst keyboard I have ever used. I do not understand how a keyboard like that could possibly have made it onto a $3000 laptop. Which is funny because the touchpad is by far the best touchpad I've ever used, it's the first touchpad I'd ever used that made me think a touchpad could compete with a mouse. It even made me start donating to the linux touchpad improvement project that got posted on HN [1]. My thinkpad is the exact opposite. Decent keyboard for a laptop but terrible touchpad. [1] https://www.gitclear.com/blog/linux_touchpad_update_december_2021 https://www.gitclear.com/blog/linux_touchpad_update_december...
joeman1000 4y ago
Great comment. I was agonising over whether I should buy a HHKB ($600 keyboard) and I came to a similar conclusion. I’m touching it and using it every single day for the next decade, it should be a joy to use. I can’t remember who said it, but: “An expensive tool upsets you once, when you purchase it. A cheap tool upsets you every single time you have to use it.” Computer people have to start seeing themselves as craftsman. You make a living using your tools (computer, screen, keyboard, desk, chair…), they should be the best you can afford!