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This post is starting to fill up with what sounds like a kind of hopelessness mixed with anger against Agile. It's possible to do sprints, pointing, demos, and

This post is starting to fill up with what sounds like a kind of hopelessness mixed with anger against Agile. It's possible to do sprints, pointing, demos, and retros well, but you have to own it as the engineering team. This means understanding and adapting the process to your needs. Agree on your definition of done. Set boundaries for pointing. Prevent confusing or unfinished stories from being point. Communicate how you work to the greater org, and get buy in. Use retros to constantly iterate and improve your process.

itronitron 5y ago
My experience with Agile has been that it is a powerful equalizer of everyone on the team. The degree to which a person's productivity is equal to others on their team may impact whether they consider that a net positive.
nine_zeros 5y ago
When there is so much overhead in process, the process is a waste of time. Management needs to skill up.
- notjustanymike 5y ago
  Oh management absolutely needs to skill up. One of the major reasons Agile annoys engineers is because the process is owned by an individual who doesn't understand why they're doing it, or how it can be changed. Personally, I've found retros to be most important area for a manager to focus. They can be a wonderful source of discussion and improvement for the team, or one of the most boring hours of your week.
  - nine_zeros 5y ago
    Having been in 300 retros, I assure you that the process overhead is large enough that any other process is more efficient at this point.
msandford 5y ago
"Just demand the respect that the business isn't giving you. What's the worst that could happen?" You didn't say exactly that, but that's kind of the undertone of what you wrote. If you live in the US and you demand your right to a fair trial, well good on you. But if you live somewhere perhaps less committed to such a thing, making the demand doesn't mean anything other than you're naive and foolish. So it goes in some companies as well. If they don't have the values the demand isn't you being courageous. It's you painting a target on your back.
- notjustanymike 5y ago
  Sure, if you rephrase my remarks and change my geography you can certainly change the meaning of what I said.
  - msandford 5y ago
    The country analogy is to point out that not all places have the same values. Standing up for yourself might work at some companies. At others it might get you fired.

itronitron 5y ago

My experience with Agile has been that it is a powerful equalizer of everyone on the team. The degree to which a person's productivity is equal to others on their team may impact whether they consider that a net positive.

nine_zeros 5y ago

When there is so much overhead in process, the process is a waste of time. Management needs to skill up.

notjustanymike 5y ago
Oh management absolutely needs to skill up. One of the major reasons Agile annoys engineers is because the process is owned by an individual who doesn't understand why they're doing it, or how it can be changed. Personally, I've found retros to be most important area for a manager to focus. They can be a wonderful source of discussion and improvement for the team, or one of the most boring hours of your week.
- nine_zeros 5y ago
  Having been in 300 retros, I assure you that the process overhead is large enough that any other process is more efficient at this point.

msandford 5y ago

"Just demand the respect that the business isn't giving you. What's the worst that could happen?" You didn't say exactly that, but that's kind of the undertone of what you wrote. If you live in the US and you demand your right to a fair trial, well good on you. But if you live somewhere perhaps less committed to such a thing, making the demand doesn't mean anything other than you're naive and foolish. So it goes in some companies as well. If they don't have the values the demand isn't you being courageous. It's you painting a target on your back.

notjustanymike 5y ago
Sure, if you rephrase my remarks and change my geography you can certainly change the meaning of what I said.
- msandford 5y ago
  The country analogy is to point out that not all places have the same values. Standing up for yourself might work at some companies. At others it might get you fired.