4 ms·

I've been wondering lately why hasn't someone just built an open source version of it. It would be less buggy and more up-to-date than anything a corporation co

I've been wondering lately why hasn't someone just built an open source version of it. It would be less buggy and more up-to-date than anything a corporation could build. It would also create the incentive to eventually get rid of the industry all together

outworlder 4y ago
The tax code is particularly complicated – and then there are multiple states to worry about. It would be difficult for a single person to do this. Not impossible, maybe there are some CPAs which are also software engineers. Once the project becomes big enough, maybe more people would help. The problem is then: are they shielded from liability? If there's a mistake and people sue, they won't have Intuit's lawyer army. But let's say we have the perfect program. Would people be OK with printing out and mailing their returns? Because you have to be an authorized provider to e-file.
- dlp211 4y ago
  I would say that this IS impossible for any single individual. The amount of edge cases that software like this needs to capture is enormous and there isn't a single human in the world that could account for all of them. Not to mention the changes in the tax code every year.
kube-system 4y ago
It has been tried, but I haven’t seen any projects that were able to keep up.It takes a lot of manpower to update all of the various forms for every tax season. Congress can and has done things like pass a 1700+ page bill changing the tax code on Dec 20th of the same tax year, and some users will want to start filing their returns within a month. And there are 50 states that can do the same thing. Also it requires expertise outside of programming for which there is not much enthusiasm for open source.
- formerkrogemp 4y ago
  Becoming a CPA sucks. You need 150 credit hours, pass 4 exams with 50% pass rate, and usually needs 1 year of qualified experience to qualify. Programming is so much easier to get into.
  - JAlexoid 4y ago
    It's intentional. The whole point is to protect the jobs from competition.
caturopath 4y ago
Not the Wizard format, but https://sites.google.com/view/incometaxspreadsheet/home https://sites.google.com/view/incometaxspreadsheet/home is a pretty popular project along those lines.
pinkythepig 4y ago
There are already affordable alternatives. The people still using turbotax are the same people that spend 0 time looking into alternatives or there is some import feature that an opensource platform realistically would not have the manpower to replicate. Freetaxusa is $15 at a minimum (state fee) and $50ish at the max if you opt into everything. UI isn't loaded with fake loading screens, and they only try to upsell maybe 2 or 3 times during the whole process. My parents complain about turbotax every year and every year I tell them about alternatives... But they still won't switch because 'its what they know'.
- tomc1985 4y ago
  FreeTaxUSA made me manually input my stock transactions last year, via a paper PDF I had to print and mail separately. For most situations it is probably fine but its investments support seemed limited.
  - wardedVibe 4y ago
    There is the summary option, though I'm unsure about when that is or isn't legal
  - sjg007 4y ago
    You have to update these things anyway in turbo tax and hr block. 90% have the wrong adjusted basis.
    - pertymcpert 4y ago
      Only if they're RSUs.
  - jandrese 4y ago
    Turbotax did the same thing, at least a few years ago when I used it last.
  - pinkythepig 4y ago
    Why would an open source solution improve on that though? If anything, that would be way lower on their priority list as anyone doing large numbers of investments would (should?) have money to pay for a nicer UX solution and probably would want to, as the risk of an audit is a bigger 'cost' than $50-80 in filing fees. The sheer number of changes that the Tax code makes every year would be hard enough to keep up with for an open source project, let alone making integrations with all of the brokerages to make this process less painful.
trianglesphere 4y ago
It’s not just federal taxes, but 50 states. I think you could get enough oss manpower for keeping up to date with federal taxes, but not every state.
jlund-molfese 4y ago
There is https://ustaxes.org https://ustaxes.org , an open-source tax filing application, but I'm not adventurous enough to use it when a mistake could be very expensive.
- beembeem 4y ago
  When I'm done filing mine this year I'm going to take a serious look at contributing to this project on Github.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
HWR_14 4y ago
The IRS has the information to do my taxes. They should just send me a bill (or a check) with a copy of their math that I can accept or dispute.
- DesiLurker 4y ago
  they dont have your deduction information though, also for investments they dont always have cost basis info. other than that for simple returns they can absolutely do an automated federal 'tax receipt' with standard deductions.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    > they dont have your deduction information though Except for medical bills, mortgage deduction, education expenses, retirement/HSA/etc. accounts and SALT (if that gets reinstated) and maybe a couple of others, probably. Although, frankly, I'm not sure what deductions other than charitable contributions don't get reported to the IRS and I'm similarly not sure what deductible expenses don't already have a paper trail I would care about retaining. But that's where "correcting the math" would include replacing the standard deductions with itemization would come in. I think requiring a basis for investment income to be made in the acquired year to the IRS is both reasonable and trivial.

outworlder 4y ago

The tax code is particularly complicated – and then there are multiple states to worry about. It would be difficult for a single person to do this. Not impossible, maybe there are some CPAs which are also software engineers. Once the project becomes big enough, maybe more people would help. The problem is then: are they shielded from liability? If there's a mistake and people sue, they won't have Intuit's lawyer army. But let's say we have the perfect program. Would people be OK with printing out and mailing their returns? Because you have to be an authorized provider to e-file.

dlp211 4y ago
I would say that this IS impossible for any single individual. The amount of edge cases that software like this needs to capture is enormous and there isn't a single human in the world that could account for all of them. Not to mention the changes in the tax code every year.

kube-system 4y ago

It has been tried, but I haven’t seen any projects that were able to keep up.It takes a lot of manpower to update all of the various forms for every tax season. Congress can and has done things like pass a 1700+ page bill changing the tax code on Dec 20th of the same tax year, and some users will want to start filing their returns within a month. And there are 50 states that can do the same thing. Also it requires expertise outside of programming for which there is not much enthusiasm for open source.

formerkrogemp 4y ago
Becoming a CPA sucks. You need 150 credit hours, pass 4 exams with 50% pass rate, and usually needs 1 year of qualified experience to qualify. Programming is so much easier to get into.
- JAlexoid 4y ago
  It's intentional. The whole point is to protect the jobs from competition.

caturopath 4y ago

Not the Wizard format, but https://sites.google.com/view/incometaxspreadsheet/home https://sites.google.com/view/incometaxspreadsheet/home is a pretty popular project along those lines.

pinkythepig 4y ago

There are already affordable alternatives. The people still using turbotax are the same people that spend 0 time looking into alternatives or there is some import feature that an opensource platform realistically would not have the manpower to replicate. Freetaxusa is $15 at a minimum (state fee) and $50ish at the max if you opt into everything. UI isn't loaded with fake loading screens, and they only try to upsell maybe 2 or 3 times during the whole process. My parents complain about turbotax every year and every year I tell them about alternatives... But they still won't switch because 'its what they know'.

tomc1985 4y ago
FreeTaxUSA made me manually input my stock transactions last year, via a paper PDF I had to print and mail separately. For most situations it is probably fine but its investments support seemed limited.
- wardedVibe 4y ago
  There is the summary option, though I'm unsure about when that is or isn't legal
- sjg007 4y ago
  You have to update these things anyway in turbo tax and hr block. 90% have the wrong adjusted basis.
  - pertymcpert 4y ago
    Only if they're RSUs.
- jandrese 4y ago
  Turbotax did the same thing, at least a few years ago when I used it last.
- pinkythepig 4y ago
  Why would an open source solution improve on that though? If anything, that would be way lower on their priority list as anyone doing large numbers of investments would (should?) have money to pay for a nicer UX solution and probably would want to, as the risk of an audit is a bigger 'cost' than $50-80 in filing fees. The sheer number of changes that the Tax code makes every year would be hard enough to keep up with for an open source project, let alone making integrations with all of the brokerages to make this process less painful.

trianglesphere 4y ago

It’s not just federal taxes, but 50 states. I think you could get enough oss manpower for keeping up to date with federal taxes, but not every state.

jlund-molfese 4y ago

There is https://ustaxes.org https://ustaxes.org , an open-source tax filing application, but I'm not adventurous enough to use it when a mistake could be very expensive.

beembeem 4y ago
When I'm done filing mine this year I'm going to take a serious look at contributing to this project on Github.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

HWR_14 4y ago

The IRS has the information to do my taxes. They should just send me a bill (or a check) with a copy of their math that I can accept or dispute.

DesiLurker 4y ago
they dont have your deduction information though, also for investments they dont always have cost basis info. other than that for simple returns they can absolutely do an automated federal 'tax receipt' with standard deductions.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > they dont have your deduction information though Except for medical bills, mortgage deduction, education expenses, retirement/HSA/etc. accounts and SALT (if that gets reinstated) and maybe a couple of others, probably. Although, frankly, I'm not sure what deductions other than charitable contributions don't get reported to the IRS and I'm similarly not sure what deductible expenses don't already have a paper trail I would care about retaining. But that's where "correcting the math" would include replacing the standard deductions with itemization would come in. I think requiring a basis for investment income to be made in the acquired year to the IRS is both reasonable and trivial.