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The Learjet era ends with a final delivery
- mysterydip 5y agoI remember kid me first discovering the Learjet in a flight simulator in the 90s. I dreamed of one day being a pilot or having my own airline with a fleet of them. Sad to see them go.
- pseudostem 5y agoI might be totally wrong, but was it "press F8 for flaps" before landing? MS flight simulator on 8 floppies was brilliant.
- anyfoo 5y agoImmediately thought of that as well. I still play MSFS4 from time to time in dosbox. I sat down with dosbox’s internal debugger one day and patched the .EXE so that it properly works with joysticks, and now use a Bluetooth game pad to fly the Learjet from SFO over the Golden Gate Bridge to Seattle navigating via radio from VOR to VOR every now and then. There’s just something about this “light” simulation. I can just go for a “simple fly in a Learjet” (hah) while doing other stuff.
- paulmd 5y agoThat sounds useful. If this isn't something you found elsewhere, please document what you did and put it up in a github gist or a pastebin or something!
- anyfoo 5y agoSure, it was just a small thing pertaining mostly to gamepads. If you have joysticks with an extra throttle control, or only one joystick with only two analogue axes, you can likely ignore it. FS4 had joystick support for the analogue joysticks of the time already, and dosbox properly emulates those. But the problem I ran into is the limited configuration options for the joysticks: * "Joystick A" controls the yoke. * "Joystick B" controls either trottle+brakes, or throttle+rudder. Again this should be fine if you actually have a physical throttle control and can split up the two axes to different joysticks (as you're not likely to actually have throttle and rudder on the same joystick), which dosbox/dosbox-x should be able to do. But for this "quick flying", I'm often on my laptop and using a Bluetooth gamepad with two analogue thumb sticks: https://www.8bitdo.com/sn30-pro-g-classic-or-sn30-pro-sn/ https://www.8bitdo.com/sn30-pro-g-classic-or-sn30-pro-sn/ In that case, having the throttle forcibly on any thumb stick axis is terrible: Throttle adjustments are done comparatively rarely, so the self-returning nature of a thumb stick means that you're constantly having to hold the axis in the same position with your thumb. In addition, typically one stick will be fully occupied by the yoke, so the other stick will have to be throttle and rudder, which is just unnatural and weird. I put throttle increase/decrease on buttons instead (not ideal, but works out pretty well), but unless you turn off "Joystick B" entirely, which implies also losing rudder control, FS4 can't be made to ignore the throttle axis, and will override the throttle setting with whatever the current value of the axis is. Mapping the axis to "nothing" in dosbox does not help, since that will just keep the throttle at 0. So I spent half an hour or so dumping memory state, diffing, and single-stepping through the assembly, just so that I could patch out the instructions that set the throttle value from joystick input with NOPs, effectively ignoring it. To do that, patch out the bytes from 0x776c to 0x7771 (inclusive) to be 0x90 (a NOP) in FS4.EXE. This is for V4.0b of FS4 specifically, but if there is a reason to use an earlier version I'm not aware of it.
- mysterydip 5y agoPretty sure it was MS flight sim, but not sure which version anymore
- LeftHandPath 5y agoThere's still a possibility of that. The company I work for has a small fleet of legacy-model Learjets for both business and certification use.
- tomatowurst 5y agoStill fond memories of landing in O'hare airport at dusk with the dim orange light illuminating the dashboard with looping jet sounds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIhey40rjks&t=1787s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIhey40rjks&t=1787s
- holoduke 5y agoI used to play an even older version. https://youtu.be/JhTM1dYu7HA https://youtu.be/JhTM1dYu7HA The Learjet was so cool and fast.
- cbsmith 5y agoI'm curious why the line was retired, as the brand recognition is still so strong.
- mumblemumble 5y agoI would guess the brand recognition is more driven by Microsoft Flight Simulator than popularity among its target market? The Source of All Truth suggests that the LearJet 70/75 hasn't been selling nearly as well as some of its competitors.
- cbsmith 5y agoI figured it wasn't selling nearly as well as its competitors, and I could certainly could see why older designs would not be appealing any more. What I'd imagine though would be newer designs would get the Learjet brand slapped on them and do well.
- cmpolis 5y agoI think Learjet brand name has strong connotations with old tech and early days of private GA jets. Also, there is lots of competition at this size of a/c from newer/more modern designs (Pilatus PC-24, Embraer Phenom, Cessna Citation variants) and a very limited buyer pool
- cbsmith 5y agoInteresting. I totally get that it's a competitive market and various parties would push others out. I just figured the brand itself would be an asset that one of the surviving parties would want to use. It makes sense though that connotations with old tech would undermine the brand value.
- ilrwbwrkhv 5y agoI have flown in two of these planes. Absolutely fascinating and it's sad they are no longer being produced.
- sokoloff 5y agoI've only been a passenger on a private jet once: a lightly loaded Lear 60. The takeoff was amazing; there was a fairly high level of initial acceleration and the acceleration got stronger and stronger as the airspeed built on the runway. I went up to the cockpit door early in the climb and we were climbing at over 5K feet per minute. It was obvious that the aircraft was not short on engine power. :) 611mi (641mi flown) in 1h09m for an average speed of 531mph direct (557mph/485 knots as flown). Peak climb rate per flightaware (slightly noisy): 5781 fpm.
- Terry_Roll 5y agoI've flown with these guys, all ex RAF Red Arrow Pilots, didnt need a sick bag! https://theblades.com/corporate-and-private-events/ https://theblades.com/corporate-and-private-events/ Thing is, if you have the gift of the gab get into politics and then you have the use of various taxpayer funded aircraft at your disposal, or make it rich, or be a head of state!
- devilbunny 5y agoInteresting. Prices seem pretty reasonable for what you get.
- Terry_Roll 5y agoIts a nice corporate day out, the parachute training only takes 10mins which is keep your knees togethers, legs bent and when you hit the ground roll to your left or right but thats about it really. Its an attempt to stop bones being broken and trying to change or spread the momentum throughout the body.
- a4isms 5y ago> Aircraft aren’t the only thing [Bill] Lear invented. He is also known for developing the 8-track cartridge audio tape Did they ever ship a Learjet with an 8-track system for playing music in-flight? Wikipedia's entry doesn't mention using it in aviation, just home audio and—of course—automobiles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8-track_tape https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8-track_tape
- scoopertrooper 5y agoI imagine they'd be rockin' reel-to-reels.
- runlevel1 5y agoAccording to Smithsonian, it was originally created for use in aircraft: > Intrigued by Earl Muntz’s four-track cartridge, Lear wanted a tape system for his Learjet business aircraft. Realizing that the aviation market was too small, Lear convinced Ford and GM to offer optional 8-track players. Source: https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_995221 https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nma...
- fsckboy 5y agojust to be precise, that doesn't actually say it was deployed in Learjets, only that it was intended to be before it was developed. I don't doubt that it was, but it doesn't say that. btw, many 8-track tape cartridges had "Lear Jet" embossed in the plastic like this one http://fieldwoodhs.ednet.ns.ca/slim-182dvs10584jet.jpg http://fieldwoodhs.ednet.ns.ca/slim-182dvs10584jet.jpg
- belter 5y agoThe History of LearJet: https://youtu.be/x_VVyx9GXFo https://youtu.be/x_VVyx9GXFo
- joeamroo 5y agoGo 'n ride the lear jet, baby. Go 'n ride the lear jet
- kirenida 5y agoI'm in the high-fidelity first class travelling set You know, I think I need a Lear jet
- 88840-8855 5y ago
- shockeychap 5y agoThis just sounds envious and resentful.
- 88840-8855 5y agoyes, it is. I'm not hiding it. those are human emotions.
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- thriftwy 5y agoYandex founders rode business jets when preparing for IPO. They are/were nice guys. Segalovich sometimes played freesbie with us devs in the cloister.
- beaned 5y agoThere are casual millionaires everywhere. People only notice the ones who prefer to stand out, who are probably the minority.
- oneoff786 5y agoThey don’t like you either
- technothrasher 5y agoThis little one's not worth the effort. Now let me get you something.
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- criddell 5y ago> He is also known for [...] developing the technology that made it possible to reduce the size of electronics What technology is that?
- eganist 5y agoWikipedia suggests it's the use of Litz wire rather than solid wire in the making of radio tuning coils. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Lear#Radio_engineer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Lear#Radio_engineer
- aidenn0 5y agoInteresting that the article on Lear mentions that Lear designed the first Motorola radio for Galvin (after having sold his radio company to them for a 1/3 stake in the company), but Lear is not mentioned anywhere in the Motorola article.
- Johnythree 5y agoThis is a bit misleading. The use of Litz wire to reduce RF losses dates back to the earliest days of radio. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire
- mannykannot 5y agoThis is based on something I read quite a few years ago, but IIRC, as a hands-on partner in Motorola (in its early days, he was its sole circuit designer) he led it into being an early adopter of transistors and other semiconductor devices. (If this is the basis for the quoted passage in the article then it is arguably misleading, but using transistors to make compact electronic devices required innovations in circuit design, and, in general, turning new technology into useful products requires vision and innovation.)
- lesgobrandon 5y ago
- zabzonk 5y ago"Then you flew your lear jet up to Nova Scotia To see the total eclipse of the sun" Carly Simon - "you're so vain". Edit: Rather strange downvotes? I was intending on illustrating how the Lear Jet had slipped into our culture.
- bombcar 5y agoYou’re so vain you probably think this song is about you … The song contains a parse error in the lyrics, causing half of HN to blue screen.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y agoAlso mentioned in the Pink Floyd song “Money”: “I'm in the high-fidelity first-class traveling set and I think I need a Learjet”
- candlemas 5y agoJohn Lear, Bill Lear's son, died last month. He was an interesting guy. Told a lot of stories about UFOs and aliens and soul catchers on the moon.
- user3939382 5y agoI've spent many hours listening to his interviews on Art Bell, I didn't know he passed away. That's really sad that they're both gone :(
- candlemas 5y agoThe big questions is, did he go into the light?
- user3939382 5y agoHe mentioned it so many times, I think he was genuinely worried about that.
- tomatowurst 5y agoI see many learjets on sale, do you think its safe to purchase a jet made in the late 90s, early 00s? seems to be selling at huge discounts.
- dijonman2 5y agoProper maintenance and periodic inspections lead to the eventual replacement of all parts before their failure sans the airframe, when it is typically cheaper to buy a new aircraft. You could be seeing such an airplane for sale.
- sokoloff 5y agoSome of the Lear models don’t meet noise regulations and need modifications to continue to be used. But in general, older aircraft are safe. (For years, I flew a 1967 C182 piston single.) Thirsty jets are selling at a discount in times when oil is expensive. Pre-COVID, you could buy an airworthy Cessna Citation for basically the value of the remaining time on the engines. They got to be worth more after that for a couple of reasons, but the cost of buying the airplane is not the last of your spending in the airplane world and especially not in the jet world. I could easily afford to buy a clapped-out legacy Citation. I could not afford to feed and maintain a legacy Citation. It might be similar to horses in that regard, just with extra zeroes.
- kingcharles 5y agoIt's the same with cars :) All the people I know who looked in the classifieds and bought themselves a supercar for peanuts then found they needed some small component replaced after a couple of thousand miles, which cost half as much as the car did.
- vesrah 5y agoNice thing is you can usually (but not always) DIY yourself to a cheap fix :)
- addaon 5y agoA properly maintained aircraft is safe at any age. However, some aircraft have fatigue life limits on either the airframe as a whole or parts that are cost-prohibitive to replace on an old aircraft, such as wing spars. Talk to your (future) mechanic, who can look up ADs (airworthiness directives) and other limitations. Do make sure you look into operating costs (maintenance, insurance, fuel, etc -- and some of these are fixed costs even if the aircraft hardly flies at all) before you buy something!
- WalterBright 5y agoStory time: An engineer colleague of mine at Boeing working on flight controls always talked about how great Learjets were, and how he liked working on them. I finally asked him, "if you like Learjet so much, why are you here working for Boeing?" He replied: "I told Bill Lear he was an asshole."
- smilespray 5y agoReminds me of the time I spoke to Håkon Wium Lie and said "you should let me redo Opera's GUI. Who designed this crap?" He replied "I did." Never got that gig.
- zerkten 5y agoDoes anyone know of Learjet military use? I came across usage as a decoy in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Sheffield_(D80) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Sheffield_(D80).
- sokoloff 5y agoThe C-21 is the military designation for their version of the Lear 35A. https://www.military.com/equipment/c-21a https://www.military.com/equipment/c-21a
- bombcar 5y agoI believe customs flew them for awhile too.
- buildsjets 5y agoThe original Learjet’s wings and landing gear were derived from a military fighter aircraft, the Swiss FFA-P16. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFA_P-16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFA_P-16
- joshjdr 5y ago>Lear started designing a private jet in the 1950s. Jet aircraft were new technology, and there were many designs that never made it off the drawing board. That changed when Lear opted to adapt a Swiss ground-attack fighter, the FFA P-16, that had never been built. Source: Article
- TedDoesntTalk 5y agoLear also made great mainframe terminals in the 1970s.
- throwawayboise 5y agoWas that the same company? Never knew that....
- TedDoesntTalk 5y agoI don't know if it was the same corporate entity, but Bill Lear was behind both of them.
- tzs 5y agoThey were completely separate corporate entities. Lear was an aviation electronics company and Bill Lear wanted it to become an aircraft company but the board would not agree. Bill Lear then sold his interest in Lear the aviation electronics company to Siegler, which had started as an HVAC company but had expanded into other areas including electronics, and the two merged giving Lear Siegler. The management of the new merged company was almost all from Siegler. Bill Lear then started Lear the aircraft company.
- throwawayboise 5y agoOK I guess that was what I meant to ask. Never knew it was the same Lear. I spent many many hours in front of ADM-3a and ADM-5 terminals in my undergrad days.
- cascom 5y agoI think the interesting element is what it says about the market for private jets in that there isn’t a perceived market for light jets, but that the super-midsized to large cabin+ is still very viable, any thoughts on what’s driving that? Interest rates, Engine efficiency, fractional ownership, customer preference?
- tnorthcutt 5y agoNot totally sure what you mean by "there isn’t a perceived market for light jets", but both Honda and Cirrus produce quite popular light jets.
- cascom 5y agoFrom a taxonomy standpoint, I think those are very light jets. To be clear, I’m not saying the light jet market is dead or anything definitive like that, but the fact that Bombardier is shutting down their well established light jet offering would seem to indicate they don’t have a rosy outlook for the segment.
- ac29 5y agoAs the article mentions, Bombadier is still making small jets like the Challenger: https://businessaircraft.bombardier.com/en/aircraft/challenger-350#bba-pdp-section-1 https://businessaircraft.bombardier.com/en/aircraft/challeng...
- cascom 5y agoSee my original comment - those are super-midsized (challenger 350/3500) to large cabin ( challenger 650 and Globals) The market is: very light jet, light jet, midsize, super-midsize, large, large/long range, private airliner Bombardier is exiting the light jet market, and staying in the super-midsize, large, large/long range parts of the market.
- t0mas88 5y agoThe Cirrus Vision jet is a very different market, that's made for owners that want to fly it themselves. They made it for hobby pilots that learn in the SR20/SR22 and then upgrade to the jet. It is designed to make that transition relatively easy and it is a single-engine jet so you don't need to get a multi-engine rating first. Some of the smaller Citation jets can also be flown single pilot (like the 510), but they still require a multi-engine rating and the avionics are a bit more complex than the more straightforward switch from the SR22 to the Vision jet
- starwind 5y agoWhenever I’m talking to a pilot who flies a Lear I refuse to pronounce the company name as anything other than “Bomb-ba-deer” cause I think it sounds super cool and I can’t pronounce anything vaguely French
- TylerE 5y agoWonder if you realize the irony...
- jamesy0ung 5y agoThe 747 isn't too far off. I think the last one rolls out in October.
- rmason 5y agoBill Lear was a genius. Of all his different inventions the one that interested me the most was his attempt to invent and launch a steam powered car. Starting in 1969 he tried for ten years and spent untold millions of his fortune. In the end though he had successes (a SF city bus) but he couldn't make the car work. I had a conversation with an automotive engineer who was privy to the details who said if they'd had an inexpensive computer he thinks that they might have pulled it off. There were too many moving parts to control with analog technology. Yet Lear's high profile failure scared off anyone from trying again to obsolete gas powered vehicles. That is until Martin Eberhardt and Marc Tarpenning came along and reinvented the electric car. https://driventowrite.com/2015/12/02/lear-steam-car/ https://driventowrite.com/2015/12/02/lear-steam-car/
- outsider7 5y agoA couple of years ago I worked on an avionics suite upgrade for a "state of the art" Lear flight deck destined for training (aka Full Flight Simulator in the trade). The thing had a Frankenstein setup that dated way back from an older Lear and was a under-invested mess. At the time, Bombardier was throwing away all it's cash on the C-Series certification (Now known as Airbus A220). Lear85 ended up being getting cancelled so they could concentrate on C-Series. Given the small(er) range of the 75 compared to alternatives, it's sky-roof high maintenance cost (as with any Lear) I wasn't surprised when I saw it getting canned. The only thing really going for it was high manoeuvrability and, I guess(only a guess) perhaps runway minimal length. Nothing was left to keep the 75 competitive and with no replacement in sight... It is time to say bye bye Lear!
- onionisafruit 5y agoRunway length was a big deal for oil-rich ranchers who had landing strips on their ranches.