4 ms·

Are you completely ignoring that I mentioned WhatsApp? They brought end2end encryption to the masses.

robbedpeter 5y ago
Whatsapp does not have e2e encryption. They encrypt message traffic in transit between endpoints and their servers, but they have visibility to the data. They can and have retrieved messages for law enforcement. End to end encryption is something fundamentally structurally different - only the two end points can decrypt the message. Alice sends Bob a message. If only Bob can decrypt it, it's e2ee. If meta, the nsa, cia, IRS, post office, and random dudes on the internet pretending to be law enforcement all have access to the message, it's not e2ee. Meta/Facebook sold the illusion of security to the masses. Let's not pretend they're the good guys.
- mccorrinall 5y ago
  > Whatsapp does not have e2e encryption. They encrypt message traffic in transit between endpoints and their servers, but they have visibility to the data. They can and have retrieved messages for law enforcement. Can you provide a source for that? Here [1] they state that they use e2ee. Here [2] is a tweet by Moxie Marlinspike (the founder/one of the founders of signal), that whatsapp implemented the signal protocol. Is signal also not end2end encrypted? [1] https://www.whatsapp.com/security/ https://www.whatsapp.com/security/ [2] https://twitter.com/moxie/status/717375035946577922?s=21&t=6LdhJr3s2z_XM_no-agKvQ https://twitter.com/moxie/status/717375035946577922?s=21&t=6...
  - robbedpeter 5y ago
    Signal protocol is used between whatsapp server and endpoint, not from endpoint to endpoint. Once your message is on their server, it's decrypted, archived, inspected, and then passed to its intended recipient.
    - mccorrinall 5y ago
      This is not true. There is a deep technical explanation about how e2ee works in WhatsApp: https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.8562-6/271639644_1080641699441889_2201546141855802968_n.pdf?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=ad8a9d&_nc_ohc=OWtWnJimc5gAX9RZSMr&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_UW4ID5KhGbSUGQVNhVyGfeM44nzkUVYeDRKGR-w5aWQ&oe=6263F9FD https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.8562-6/271639644_...

Whatsapp does not have e2e encryption. They encrypt message traffic in transit between endpoints and their servers, but they have visibility to the data. They can and have retrieved messages for law enforcement. End to end encryption is something fundamentally structurally different - only the two end points can decrypt the message. Alice sends Bob a message. If only Bob can decrypt it, it's e2ee. If meta, the nsa, cia, IRS, post office, and random dudes on the internet pretending to be law enforcement all have access to the message, it's not e2ee. Meta/Facebook sold the illusion of security to the masses. Let's not pretend they're the good guys.

mccorrinall 5y ago
> Whatsapp does not have e2e encryption. They encrypt message traffic in transit between endpoints and their servers, but they have visibility to the data. They can and have retrieved messages for law enforcement. Can you provide a source for that? Here [1] they state that they use e2ee. Here [2] is a tweet by Moxie Marlinspike (the founder/one of the founders of signal), that whatsapp implemented the signal protocol. Is signal also not end2end encrypted? [1] https://www.whatsapp.com/security/ https://www.whatsapp.com/security/ [2] https://twitter.com/moxie/status/717375035946577922?s=21&t=6LdhJr3s2z_XM_no-agKvQ https://twitter.com/moxie/status/717375035946577922?s=21&t=6...
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  Signal protocol is used between whatsapp server and endpoint, not from endpoint to endpoint. Once your message is on their server, it's decrypted, archived, inspected, and then passed to its intended recipient.
  - mccorrinall 5y ago
    This is not true. There is a deep technical explanation about how e2ee works in WhatsApp: https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.8562-6/271639644_1080641699441889_2201546141855802968_n.pdf?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=ad8a9d&_nc_ohc=OWtWnJimc5gAX9RZSMr&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_UW4ID5KhGbSUGQVNhVyGfeM44nzkUVYeDRKGR-w5aWQ&oe=6263F9FD https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.8562-6/271639644_...