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In the near term, EVs are a great way to lower the emissions of a small number of vehicles. Hybrids allow us a better way to allocate our currently limited sup

In the near term, EVs are a great way to lower the emissions of a small number of vehicles. Hybrids allow us a better way to allocate our currently limited supply of batteries and reduce fuel usage across the fleet. Of course both of these compete with mass transit and simply driving less. Disclosure: I own an EV. While I believe hybrids are better for society as a whole, I like my EV and there's a 50/50 shot I'll stay with EVs when my lease expires. That said, it would be nice to avoid the hassle of charging and get rid of my range anxiety.

WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
There’s also a huge segment of professional vehicles (specialized, delivery vans, ambulances) which are going to stay firmly in the diesel land for the foreseeable future.
- tcfhgj 5y ago
  Delivery vans? Germany, seem to be electric at my place, and cargo bikes are used in the city as well. A recent advancement: https://ebike-news.de/75-tonner-bald-geschichte-db-schenker-setzt-auf-riesen-cargo-e-bike/200926/ https://ebike-news.de/75-tonner-bald-geschichte-db-schenker-... I don't think there are any issues of removing diesel here. I can't think of why ambulances couldnt be electrified as well. Low center of gravity thanks to the battrry could help here.
  - WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
    Ambulances sometimes have a lot of distance to cover. There’s life outside large cities, too.
    - tcfhgj 5y ago
      Life outside cities arent a problem for evs, usually at least. At least in europe you wont be driving for hours with an ambulance.
      - WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
        In 2020, when COVID-19 was rampant and nobody had a clue what to do about it, it was not an uncommon thing, unfortunately, to have to drive 70 km or more to a case of a heart attack, and then take a mad ride from one hospital to another to find one that would pretty fucking please with sugar on top admit a patient whose life is threatened. All the while stabilizing the poor patient. It could have easily taken hours and many hundreds of kilometers. This is a true story told me by an EMT. An EV would in such circumstances have been dead halway between one hospital and another, having to power both its engine and medical equipment (though I suspect those have backup batteries too).
  - WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
    Also when I’m a big company with a budget, and I see that for the price of one EV with a 200 km of actually achievable range I can buy 2.5 diesel versions of the same model which cost less to maintain and have 600 km range, take negligible time to tank, and you need 50-100 of them, the choice becomes really obvious: unless the state subsidizes EVs really heavily, they are not the way to go for now.
    - bryanlarsen 5y ago
      A fleet EV typically adds about $10,000 to the purchase price and saves about $5000 a year in fuel and maintenance. Most, but definitely not all, fleets do less than 300km a day and idle overnight.
- CTDOCodebases 5y ago
  My question is what's happening with military vehicles? Will they stay with diesel or move to something like hydrogen. If they stick with diesel then the cost of war is going to increase as the economies of scale shrink.
  - WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
    They are going to make even better torches once they are hit…
  - AlexandrB 5y ago
    I think they'll stick with diesel and whatever kind of jet fuel powers the M1 Abrams. Cost has never been much of a consideration for the military.
    - rascul 5y ago
      As far as I know, JP-8 powers just about every US military vehicle. We sure didn't have anything else available for military vehicles while I was in the Army, but I was never in a tank unit.
  - bryanlarsen 5y ago
    I expect space based solar to be the next big thing the military will get into. It's way too expensive for everybody else, but cheap compared to what the military spend to fly generator fuel into war zones. Once they have secure electricity, they can think about relying on it more.
perryizgr8 5y ago
> Of course both of these compete with mass transit and simply driving less. Driving less is a solution to reducing vehicular emissions in the same way eating less is a solution to world hunger.
- 01100011 5y ago
  Not really. As Covid has shown us, a significant amount of commuting is essentially useless. I suspect business travel via air will never recover as a percentage of GDP. Also mass transit isn't analogous to fasting. You still get to eat, but instead of eating steak made to order you're eating spaghetti from a cafeteria.
fomine3 5y ago
What Toyota should have done is selling more PHEV in around 2016. They could save carbon emission for daily use case and uses less batteries (and they keep their advantage).

WesolyKubeczek 5y ago

There’s also a huge segment of professional vehicles (specialized, delivery vans, ambulances) which are going to stay firmly in the diesel land for the foreseeable future.

tcfhgj 5y ago
Delivery vans? Germany, seem to be electric at my place, and cargo bikes are used in the city as well. A recent advancement: https://ebike-news.de/75-tonner-bald-geschichte-db-schenker-setzt-auf-riesen-cargo-e-bike/200926/ https://ebike-news.de/75-tonner-bald-geschichte-db-schenker-... I don't think there are any issues of removing diesel here. I can't think of why ambulances couldnt be electrified as well. Low center of gravity thanks to the battrry could help here.
- WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
  Ambulances sometimes have a lot of distance to cover. There’s life outside large cities, too.
  - tcfhgj 5y ago
    Life outside cities arent a problem for evs, usually at least. At least in europe you wont be driving for hours with an ambulance.
    - WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
      In 2020, when COVID-19 was rampant and nobody had a clue what to do about it, it was not an uncommon thing, unfortunately, to have to drive 70 km or more to a case of a heart attack, and then take a mad ride from one hospital to another to find one that would pretty fucking please with sugar on top admit a patient whose life is threatened. All the while stabilizing the poor patient. It could have easily taken hours and many hundreds of kilometers. This is a true story told me by an EMT. An EV would in such circumstances have been dead halway between one hospital and another, having to power both its engine and medical equipment (though I suspect those have backup batteries too).
- WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
  Also when I’m a big company with a budget, and I see that for the price of one EV with a 200 km of actually achievable range I can buy 2.5 diesel versions of the same model which cost less to maintain and have 600 km range, take negligible time to tank, and you need 50-100 of them, the choice becomes really obvious: unless the state subsidizes EVs really heavily, they are not the way to go for now.
  - bryanlarsen 5y ago
    A fleet EV typically adds about $10,000 to the purchase price and saves about $5000 a year in fuel and maintenance. Most, but definitely not all, fleets do less than 300km a day and idle overnight.
CTDOCodebases 5y ago
My question is what's happening with military vehicles? Will they stay with diesel or move to something like hydrogen. If they stick with diesel then the cost of war is going to increase as the economies of scale shrink.
- WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
  They are going to make even better torches once they are hit…
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  I think they'll stick with diesel and whatever kind of jet fuel powers the M1 Abrams. Cost has never been much of a consideration for the military.
  - rascul 5y ago
    As far as I know, JP-8 powers just about every US military vehicle. We sure didn't have anything else available for military vehicles while I was in the Army, but I was never in a tank unit.
- bryanlarsen 5y ago
  I expect space based solar to be the next big thing the military will get into. It's way too expensive for everybody else, but cheap compared to what the military spend to fly generator fuel into war zones. Once they have secure electricity, they can think about relying on it more.

perryizgr8 5y ago

> Of course both of these compete with mass transit and simply driving less. Driving less is a solution to reducing vehicular emissions in the same way eating less is a solution to world hunger.

01100011 5y ago
Not really. As Covid has shown us, a significant amount of commuting is essentially useless. I suspect business travel via air will never recover as a percentage of GDP. Also mass transit isn't analogous to fasting. You still get to eat, but instead of eating steak made to order you're eating spaghetti from a cafeteria.

fomine3 5y ago

What Toyota should have done is selling more PHEV in around 2016. They could save carbon emission for daily use case and uses less batteries (and they keep their advantage).