4 ms·

I wouldn't describe the most extremist viewpoint on most matters as a white angel. Extremism tends to turn off some people from the cause when it looks somewhat

I wouldn't describe the most extremist viewpoint on most matters as a white angel. Extremism tends to turn off some people from the cause when it looks somewhat irrational. Telling people they're bad and shouldn't play non-free videogames certainly isn't going to help things much. If you make someone who would otherwise be on your side feel guilty everytime they pick up a controller to unwind at the end of the day, that's hard to swallow.

mcdonje 5y ago
You can't control if people think your viewpoint is extremist or guilt-inducing. Some viewpoints can be logically categorized as being at the end of a defined spectrum. Many cannot, and there is much room for debate on whether or not they're extremist.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  >You can't control if people think your viewpoint is extremist or guilt-inducing. True. I'm not saying he can control the impact of his viewpoint, I'm making an observation on what that impact may be. >and there is much room for debate on whether or not they're extremist. Also true. I classify RMS as an extremist, but recognize that reasonable people may disagree. >Some viewpoints can be logically categorized as being at the end of a defined spectrum That is pretty much the definition of extremism, being at the final end point on either end of a spectrum. But then that's why I don't gravitate towards viewpoints that exist only as a single point on a spectrum. I prefer a multi axial approach that takes various considerations into account. Unfortunately for me that often makes it significantly harder to convey a short answer on my views, because they are fairly nuanced. As far as RMS, he may have planted a very good seed, but I don't think that OSS would have gained dominance in many areas if there had not been more moderate & practical people working in the area.
phkahler 5y ago
IMHO there is nothing irrational about RMS position, but it is often impractical. That means we need to push harder in his direction because it shouldn't be a practical impossibility to do what he advocates. That difficulty is exactly the problem his crusade is fighting against.
schuyler2d 5y ago
It's not extremism -- it's representing a value -- of being able to access, learn, and change the code that we run and use to improve our lives. One perspective would say "RMS/Free-software advocates are saying only free games should be played" -- but another is: "If we want to have access to the code for the games we play (as a value), what economic, legal and technical infrastructure (rather than depending on current copyright, DRM, etc) do we need?" If that's something we want, how do we advocate for it?
stjohnswarts 5y ago
He's not saying people are bad, he's saying that using non-free software (his version of the term) is bad and bad for people. I don't think believe the individual is a bad person. Now I'm sure that he views people like Bill Gates as a bad person or Elon Musk (for locking down Tesla software intentionally) as they use their pulpits to lower people's personal freedom with software.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  That seems to stem from a very Christian "hate the sin, not the sinner" foundation. For me, it's always been difficult to separate a person doing bad things from the person also being bad.

mcdonje 5y ago

You can't control if people think your viewpoint is extremist or guilt-inducing. Some viewpoints can be logically categorized as being at the end of a defined spectrum. Many cannot, and there is much room for debate on whether or not they're extremist.

ineedasername 5y ago
>You can't control if people think your viewpoint is extremist or guilt-inducing. True. I'm not saying he can control the impact of his viewpoint, I'm making an observation on what that impact may be. >and there is much room for debate on whether or not they're extremist. Also true. I classify RMS as an extremist, but recognize that reasonable people may disagree. >Some viewpoints can be logically categorized as being at the end of a defined spectrum That is pretty much the definition of extremism, being at the final end point on either end of a spectrum. But then that's why I don't gravitate towards viewpoints that exist only as a single point on a spectrum. I prefer a multi axial approach that takes various considerations into account. Unfortunately for me that often makes it significantly harder to convey a short answer on my views, because they are fairly nuanced. As far as RMS, he may have planted a very good seed, but I don't think that OSS would have gained dominance in many areas if there had not been more moderate & practical people working in the area.

phkahler 5y ago

IMHO there is nothing irrational about RMS position, but it is often impractical. That means we need to push harder in his direction because it shouldn't be a practical impossibility to do what he advocates. That difficulty is exactly the problem his crusade is fighting against.

schuyler2d 5y ago

It's not extremism -- it's representing a value -- of being able to access, learn, and change the code that we run and use to improve our lives. One perspective would say "RMS/Free-software advocates are saying only free games should be played" -- but another is: "If we want to have access to the code for the games we play (as a value), what economic, legal and technical infrastructure (rather than depending on current copyright, DRM, etc) do we need?" If that's something we want, how do we advocate for it?

stjohnswarts 5y ago

He's not saying people are bad, he's saying that using non-free software (his version of the term) is bad and bad for people. I don't think believe the individual is a bad person. Now I'm sure that he views people like Bill Gates as a bad person or Elon Musk (for locking down Tesla software intentionally) as they use their pulpits to lower people's personal freedom with software.

ineedasername 5y ago
That seems to stem from a very Christian "hate the sin, not the sinner" foundation. For me, it's always been difficult to separate a person doing bad things from the person also being bad.