4 ms·

I actually get a lot of value from facebooks products, especially react, jest and graphql. I also use WhatsApp a lot. I believe the net value of Meta is positiv

I actually get a lot of value from facebooks products, especially react, jest and graphql. I also use WhatsApp a lot. I believe the net value of Meta is positive, since there work a lot of smart guys and they have awesome open source products. I’m always impressed by the architecture of react, I could probably never design something that smart.

codesternews 5y ago
- sshine 5y ago
  Starting with "Wow, what a stupid argument" is disrespectful. Consider that a kind statement will get your point across equally without coming off as a jerk. While the value of Facebook is not what is principally questioned (it is rather a question of either trade negotiation or privacy legislation), the value loss of Facebook and Instagram ceasing to run in Europe is what Meta is using as pressure; addressing that isn't stupid.
  - codesternews 5y ago
    Saying I use their tools and frameworks against privacy makes no sense. I am not saying we should not address it. But his argument against privacy with frameworks and saying facebook did good is total irrelevant and make no sense.
    - mccorrinall 5y ago
      Are you completely ignoring that I mentioned WhatsApp? They brought end2end encryption to the masses.
      - robbedpeter 5y ago
        Whatsapp does not have e2e encryption. They encrypt message traffic in transit between endpoints and their servers, but they have visibility to the data. They can and have retrieved messages for law enforcement. End to end encryption is something fundamentally structurally different - only the two end points can decrypt the message. Alice sends Bob a message. If only Bob can decrypt it, it's e2ee. If meta, the nsa, cia, IRS, post office, and random dudes on the internet pretending to be law enforcement all have access to the message, it's not e2ee. Meta/Facebook sold the illusion of security to the masses. Let's not pretend they're the good guys.
        mccorrinall 5y ago
        > Whatsapp does not have e2e encryption. They encrypt message traffic in transit between endpoints and their servers, but they have visibility to the data. They can and have retrieved messages for law enforcement. Can you provide a source for that? Here [1] they state that they use e2ee. Here [2] is a tweet by Moxie Marlinspike (the founder/one of the founders of signal), that whatsapp implemented the signal protocol. Is signal also not end2end encrypted? [1] https://www.whatsapp.com/security/ https://www.whatsapp.com/security/ [2] https://twitter.com/moxie/status/717375035946577922?s=21&t=6LdhJr3s2z_XM_no-agKvQ https://twitter.com/moxie/status/717375035946577922?s=21&t=6...
        robbedpeter 5y ago
        Signal protocol is used between whatsapp server and endpoint, not from endpoint to endpoint. Once your message is on their server, it's decrypted, archived, inspected, and then passed to its intended recipient.
        mccorrinall 5y ago
        This is not true. There is a deep technical explanation about how e2ee works in WhatsApp: https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.8562-6/271639644_1080641699441889_2201546141855802968_n.pdf?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=ad8a9d&_nc_ohc=OWtWnJimc5gAX9RZSMr&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_UW4ID5KhGbSUGQVNhVyGfeM44nzkUVYeDRKGR-w5aWQ&oe=6263F9FD https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.8562-6/271639644_...
netsharc 5y ago
To Godwin it straight away, Nazi germany also built the Autobahn, expanded the German railway, and progressed rocket technology. You seem to be saying we have to take the good and the bad of Meta and add them all up. And hey, at least it's positive for you!

codesternews 5y ago

sshine 5y ago
Starting with "Wow, what a stupid argument" is disrespectful. Consider that a kind statement will get your point across equally without coming off as a jerk. While the value of Facebook is not what is principally questioned (it is rather a question of either trade negotiation or privacy legislation), the value loss of Facebook and Instagram ceasing to run in Europe is what Meta is using as pressure; addressing that isn't stupid.
- codesternews 5y ago
  Saying I use their tools and frameworks against privacy makes no sense. I am not saying we should not address it. But his argument against privacy with frameworks and saying facebook did good is total irrelevant and make no sense.
  - mccorrinall 5y ago
    Are you completely ignoring that I mentioned WhatsApp? They brought end2end encryption to the masses.
    - robbedpeter 5y ago
      Whatsapp does not have e2e encryption. They encrypt message traffic in transit between endpoints and their servers, but they have visibility to the data. They can and have retrieved messages for law enforcement. End to end encryption is something fundamentally structurally different - only the two end points can decrypt the message. Alice sends Bob a message. If only Bob can decrypt it, it's e2ee. If meta, the nsa, cia, IRS, post office, and random dudes on the internet pretending to be law enforcement all have access to the message, it's not e2ee. Meta/Facebook sold the illusion of security to the masses. Let's not pretend they're the good guys.
      - mccorrinall 5y ago
        > Whatsapp does not have e2e encryption. They encrypt message traffic in transit between endpoints and their servers, but they have visibility to the data. They can and have retrieved messages for law enforcement. Can you provide a source for that? Here [1] they state that they use e2ee. Here [2] is a tweet by Moxie Marlinspike (the founder/one of the founders of signal), that whatsapp implemented the signal protocol. Is signal also not end2end encrypted? [1] https://www.whatsapp.com/security/ https://www.whatsapp.com/security/ [2] https://twitter.com/moxie/status/717375035946577922?s=21&t=6LdhJr3s2z_XM_no-agKvQ https://twitter.com/moxie/status/717375035946577922?s=21&t=6...
        robbedpeter 5y ago
        Signal protocol is used between whatsapp server and endpoint, not from endpoint to endpoint. Once your message is on their server, it's decrypted, archived, inspected, and then passed to its intended recipient.
        mccorrinall 5y ago
        This is not true. There is a deep technical explanation about how e2ee works in WhatsApp: https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.8562-6/271639644_1080641699441889_2201546141855802968_n.pdf?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=ad8a9d&_nc_ohc=OWtWnJimc5gAX9RZSMr&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_UW4ID5KhGbSUGQVNhVyGfeM44nzkUVYeDRKGR-w5aWQ&oe=6263F9FD https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.8562-6/271639644_...

netsharc 5y ago

To Godwin it straight away, Nazi germany also built the Autobahn, expanded the German railway, and progressed rocket technology. You seem to be saying we have to take the good and the bad of Meta and add them all up. And hey, at least it's positive for you!