6 ms·

If we boycott Russian products, and do not hire Russian people, should we start doing the same with US products and american engineers?

b3nji 4y ago
It seems this is a logical path that has now been set, doesn't it? I've been deeply ashamed of my own countries invasions, and wars along side the U.S. People didn't care about that though. Should we cancel ourselves, as we have done to Russia?
- chrischen 4y ago
  The problem is that the US has for a very long time pretty much unchecked global power. All our free-speech, what is it good for, if it cannot effect change? Look where Snowden is. Even the captain mentioned in the article pretty much told people what he did, and so is The New York Times now, but if people don't bat an eye what's the point? Heck the whole NSA spying thing was leaked something like 5 years before Snowden, and nobody cared. I think most American's won't really care about what our government is doing to others thousands of miles away so long as we can buy our iPhones, watch our movies, and browse our TikTok. I think the only practical thing that can be done is to encourage competition from America's equally-sized rivals (pretty much just China at the moment). That being said, these other countries are often not saints themselves (looking at you China), but competition is really the only thing that can check the abuse from any single party. While there are smaller "better" countries they are still within America's sphere of influence and even if you move there and avoid contributing to US taxes, you still end up contributing to that ecosystem that essentially powers the American system (most US allies participated in the war in the middle east).
  - erklik 4y ago
    > That being said, these other countries are often not saints themselves (looking at you China). Depends on who you are, isn't it? Ask the Chinese. I am sure they love their government (I believe surveys have shown that there is high level of approval) Ask the Afghans. The Chinese aren't bombing weddings and schools. Ask the Yemenis. The Chinese aren't funding the Saudis which are causing a man-made famine in their nation. Ask the Americans. Ooooh. China is terrible. I mean, there's a bias, no? They're the ones at risk of losing their spot at the head of the table. Makes sense they wouldn't like them.
    - AussieWog93 4y ago
      This is a pretty "hot" take. The Chinese government are funding/supporting all kinds of unsavoury things all around the world (yes, the same way as the US does), in addition to the political abuse that is doled out domestically (Hong Kong, Xinjiang, Shanghai, and depending on your definition of "domestic", the constant threats of invasion aimed at Taiwan).
      - erklik 4y ago
        > around the world I am curious. What conflicts or wars is the Chinese governemnt funding around the world or is involved in? Who are the Afghans or Yemenis of the Chinese government?
        AussieWog93 4y ago
        >I am curious. What conflicts or wars is the Chinese governemnt funding around the world or is involved in? Who are the Afghans or Yemenis of the Chinese government? In terms of active conflicts happening right now in 2022, none I could name off the top of my head. That's not say there isn't any, of course, but they're not as big/well known as the American ones. My comment was more about them propping up foreign dictatorships when it's in their national interest (again, similar to what the US does), such as what they've been doing for decades in Kazakhstan, Cambodia and North Korea and are starting to do now in Africa.
        erklik 4y ago
        > In terms of active conflicts happening right now in 2022, none I could name off the top of my head. That's not say there isn't any, of course, but they're not as big/well known as the American ones. Looked it up. The only current active conflict that China is involved in is "Northern Mali" where they contribute UN Peacekeeper troops. I can't seem to find anything else so maybe something is happening in secret but who knows about that. > My comment was more about them propping up foreign dictatorships when it's in their national interest (again, similar to what the US does), such as what they've been doing for decades in Kazakhstan, Cambodia and North Korea and are starting to do now in Africa. That's probably fair. However, I wasn't ever talking about that. I specifically stated Yemen and Afghanistan as the examples because that's actual conflict. Propping a friendly regime to you is bad, yes, and is terrible [1] but I don't think it can be compared with actually dropping bombs on people, which is what the US is doing. China is clearly, as far as public evidence goes, not funding/involved in any sort of wars. The US is involved in multiple wars and is actively funding one, while supporting the other heavily. This is ignoring that the past two decades, the US has virtually been at war constantly. I really don't think the US and China are remotely comparable today. So, I don't see why it's hard to believe that the rest of the world, the people who are the ones getting bombed, wouldn't prefer China over US. It only makes sense. 1. although not hypocritical in the case of China to support a dictatorship but is very hypocritical for the US
  - alduin32 4y ago
    > I think the only practical thing that can be done is to encourage competition from America's equally-sized rivals (pretty much just China at the moment) That is a bleak outlook. It would mean that any kind of revolution, or internal change, is effectively impossible, and that the only way to limit the powers of nation-states and corporations is through adversarial confrontation with similarly sized competitors, which can come at huge cost (wars, sanctions, etc). Internal changes are still possible, but we need to fight for it. While that may come at a huge cost, I believe that it would end up less costly than endless confrontation with similar powers.
- cwkoss 4y ago
  What would 'cancel ourselves' look like? Intentionally electing incompetent people? Buying Bitcoin?
pastacacioepepe 4y ago
Seeing as the US are war criminals that refuse to be judged and committed unspeakable and uncountable atrocities over the past few decades...YES
watwut 4y ago
I suggest sending more American guns to Ukraine as a compromise.
Ekaros 4y ago
We absolutely should, until they clear their house from top to bottom. Have trials run against anyone participating in these atrocities with jury being peers of the victims(that is those murdered). Treat anyone who has anyway participated or given money to the political parties or anyone who supported these actions as concentration camp guards from National Socialist Germany.

b3nji 4y ago

It seems this is a logical path that has now been set, doesn't it? I've been deeply ashamed of my own countries invasions, and wars along side the U.S. People didn't care about that though. Should we cancel ourselves, as we have done to Russia?

chrischen 4y ago
The problem is that the US has for a very long time pretty much unchecked global power. All our free-speech, what is it good for, if it cannot effect change? Look where Snowden is. Even the captain mentioned in the article pretty much told people what he did, and so is The New York Times now, but if people don't bat an eye what's the point? Heck the whole NSA spying thing was leaked something like 5 years before Snowden, and nobody cared. I think most American's won't really care about what our government is doing to others thousands of miles away so long as we can buy our iPhones, watch our movies, and browse our TikTok. I think the only practical thing that can be done is to encourage competition from America's equally-sized rivals (pretty much just China at the moment). That being said, these other countries are often not saints themselves (looking at you China), but competition is really the only thing that can check the abuse from any single party. While there are smaller "better" countries they are still within America's sphere of influence and even if you move there and avoid contributing to US taxes, you still end up contributing to that ecosystem that essentially powers the American system (most US allies participated in the war in the middle east).
- erklik 4y ago
  > That being said, these other countries are often not saints themselves (looking at you China). Depends on who you are, isn't it? Ask the Chinese. I am sure they love their government (I believe surveys have shown that there is high level of approval) Ask the Afghans. The Chinese aren't bombing weddings and schools. Ask the Yemenis. The Chinese aren't funding the Saudis which are causing a man-made famine in their nation. Ask the Americans. Ooooh. China is terrible. I mean, there's a bias, no? They're the ones at risk of losing their spot at the head of the table. Makes sense they wouldn't like them.
  - AussieWog93 4y ago
    This is a pretty "hot" take. The Chinese government are funding/supporting all kinds of unsavoury things all around the world (yes, the same way as the US does), in addition to the political abuse that is doled out domestically (Hong Kong, Xinjiang, Shanghai, and depending on your definition of "domestic", the constant threats of invasion aimed at Taiwan).
    - erklik 4y ago
      > around the world I am curious. What conflicts or wars is the Chinese governemnt funding around the world or is involved in? Who are the Afghans or Yemenis of the Chinese government?
      - AussieWog93 4y ago
        >I am curious. What conflicts or wars is the Chinese governemnt funding around the world or is involved in? Who are the Afghans or Yemenis of the Chinese government? In terms of active conflicts happening right now in 2022, none I could name off the top of my head. That's not say there isn't any, of course, but they're not as big/well known as the American ones. My comment was more about them propping up foreign dictatorships when it's in their national interest (again, similar to what the US does), such as what they've been doing for decades in Kazakhstan, Cambodia and North Korea and are starting to do now in Africa.
        erklik 4y ago
        > In terms of active conflicts happening right now in 2022, none I could name off the top of my head. That's not say there isn't any, of course, but they're not as big/well known as the American ones. Looked it up. The only current active conflict that China is involved in is "Northern Mali" where they contribute UN Peacekeeper troops. I can't seem to find anything else so maybe something is happening in secret but who knows about that. > My comment was more about them propping up foreign dictatorships when it's in their national interest (again, similar to what the US does), such as what they've been doing for decades in Kazakhstan, Cambodia and North Korea and are starting to do now in Africa. That's probably fair. However, I wasn't ever talking about that. I specifically stated Yemen and Afghanistan as the examples because that's actual conflict. Propping a friendly regime to you is bad, yes, and is terrible [1] but I don't think it can be compared with actually dropping bombs on people, which is what the US is doing. China is clearly, as far as public evidence goes, not funding/involved in any sort of wars. The US is involved in multiple wars and is actively funding one, while supporting the other heavily. This is ignoring that the past two decades, the US has virtually been at war constantly. I really don't think the US and China are remotely comparable today. So, I don't see why it's hard to believe that the rest of the world, the people who are the ones getting bombed, wouldn't prefer China over US. It only makes sense. 1. although not hypocritical in the case of China to support a dictatorship but is very hypocritical for the US
- alduin32 4y ago
  > I think the only practical thing that can be done is to encourage competition from America's equally-sized rivals (pretty much just China at the moment) That is a bleak outlook. It would mean that any kind of revolution, or internal change, is effectively impossible, and that the only way to limit the powers of nation-states and corporations is through adversarial confrontation with similarly sized competitors, which can come at huge cost (wars, sanctions, etc). Internal changes are still possible, but we need to fight for it. While that may come at a huge cost, I believe that it would end up less costly than endless confrontation with similar powers.
cwkoss 4y ago
What would 'cancel ourselves' look like? Intentionally electing incompetent people? Buying Bitcoin?

pastacacioepepe 4y ago

Seeing as the US are war criminals that refuse to be judged and committed unspeakable and uncountable atrocities over the past few decades...YES

watwut 4y ago

I suggest sending more American guns to Ukraine as a compromise.

Ekaros 4y ago

We absolutely should, until they clear their house from top to bottom. Have trials run against anyone participating in these atrocities with jury being peers of the victims(that is those murdered). Treat anyone who has anyway participated or given money to the political parties or anyone who supported these actions as concentration camp guards from National Socialist Germany.