4 ms·

,, Macintoshes are moving towards being jails, like the iMonsters. It's getting harder for users to install even their own programs to run them.'' I feel this

,, Macintoshes are moving towards being jails, like the iMonsters. It's getting harder for users to install even their own programs to run them.'' I feel this all the time, especially on my iPad Pro: I'm buying much more idevices than before, because I don't like the direction Windows has taken, and Apple gets always the newest TSMC slots (I buy the newest products from TSMC, they just happen to be made together with Apple).

GoblinSlayer 5y ago
Reminds me of "I, robot": to provide public safety, just throw everyone in jail.
- pygy_ 5y ago
  They're soft... Had they been looking into definitively getting rid of un happiness, they would have killed everyone ASAP.
  - chha 5y ago
    Already been done: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_(Doctor_Who) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_(Doctor_Who)
smackeyacky 5y ago
It amazes me that the very first personal computer I had was effectively useless without being able to write your own software. It wasn"t an Apple ][ but they encouraged software development, it was a huge part of 8 bit culture. 40 years later, trying to get something running on a modern Mac is painful, and they gatekeep it with Xcode and a variety of user hostile features. They have become what they despised in that 1984 commercial. It makes me just a little angry. No wonder people are so nostalgic for 8 bit stuff.
- joosters 5y ago
  40 years later, trying to get something running on a modern Mac is painful Right click on app, select ‘open’. If you get a prompt warning about an unknown developer, pick the option to run the app anyway. Getting angry about a prompt that you only ever see once (it won’t prompt you again) seems extreme.
  - Hackbraten 5y ago
    Have you tried getting a command-line program to build and run on an M1 Mac lately? Yeah, it works most of the time. But when it doesn’t, e.g. due to some post-build script that massages the binary after signing it, it brings you a world of pain.
    - my123 5y ago
      That's not a cryptographic signature. Use codesign -s - path to binary to recompute the checksum.
      - Hackbraten 5y ago
        And to do that, as a package maintainer, you sometimes have to trace upstream’s build system because you need to intercept the file after the build system has patched it, but before they’re actually using it to run the tests. And then you try to inject the codesign command line into the upstream build system, and hope it’s going to work this time. And often enough, it just doesn’t work at all ([1] ballpark number of issues, [2] one example case where I can confirm that I was affected myself). Apple’s codesigning is hell. [1]: https://github.com/search?q=org%3AHomebrew+codesign&type=issues https://github.com/search?q=org%3AHomebrew+codesign&type=iss... [2]: https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/7857#issuecomment-718090426 https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/7857#issuecomment-71...
  - bogwog 5y ago
    Oh fuck off with that apologist bs. Scenario: you want to sell an app for Mac. You can put it on the Mac app store and pay Apple’s tax (and live at the mercy of Apple, who are a terrible business partner) Or you can sell it through your website and not pay Apple’s tax. Except if you do this, Apple will tell your customers that you’re potentially a virus, and you have to invest more on customer support and education materials just to teach people how to launch your app (through no fault of your own). In some cases, it’s just not feasible to do this, and you just have to accept reduced sales and/or increased returns/chargebacks from angry customers that blame you for Apple’s decision. Apple’s Mac app store has a huge competitive advantage thanks to this unfair practice. Your competitors will beat you if they put their app on the Mac app store, no matter how much money you invest into advertising and improving your product. That’s anti-competitive behavior from a monopolist. It’s the same situation on Android (it’s actually worse on Android, as Google is the pioneer in this field)
- ddingus 5y ago
  The machines were often sold with your ability to create software with ease being a feature / benefit selling point. The Apple ][ is the iconic machine, as was the BBC Micro (which has a kick ass BASIC / in-line assembly environment in ROM many Apple ][ users would envy), and heck my machine came with schematics!! The modern Mac is a bit painful. Agreed.
bni 5y ago
This is quite wrong and uniformed. I build and run from source, both my own and from others all the time on my Mac.

GoblinSlayer 5y ago

Reminds me of "I, robot": to provide public safety, just throw everyone in jail.

pygy_ 5y ago
They're soft... Had they been looking into definitively getting rid of un happiness, they would have killed everyone ASAP.
- chha 5y ago
  Already been done: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_(Doctor_Who) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_(Doctor_Who)

smackeyacky 5y ago

It amazes me that the very first personal computer I had was effectively useless without being able to write your own software. It wasn"t an Apple ][ but they encouraged software development, it was a huge part of 8 bit culture. 40 years later, trying to get something running on a modern Mac is painful, and they gatekeep it with Xcode and a variety of user hostile features. They have become what they despised in that 1984 commercial. It makes me just a little angry. No wonder people are so nostalgic for 8 bit stuff.

joosters 5y ago
40 years later, trying to get something running on a modern Mac is painful Right click on app, select ‘open’. If you get a prompt warning about an unknown developer, pick the option to run the app anyway. Getting angry about a prompt that you only ever see once (it won’t prompt you again) seems extreme.
- Hackbraten 5y ago
  Have you tried getting a command-line program to build and run on an M1 Mac lately? Yeah, it works most of the time. But when it doesn’t, e.g. due to some post-build script that massages the binary after signing it, it brings you a world of pain.
  - my123 5y ago
    That's not a cryptographic signature. Use codesign -s - path to binary to recompute the checksum.
    - Hackbraten 5y ago
      And to do that, as a package maintainer, you sometimes have to trace upstream’s build system because you need to intercept the file after the build system has patched it, but before they’re actually using it to run the tests. And then you try to inject the codesign command line into the upstream build system, and hope it’s going to work this time. And often enough, it just doesn’t work at all ([1] ballpark number of issues, [2] one example case where I can confirm that I was affected myself). Apple’s codesigning is hell. [1]: https://github.com/search?q=org%3AHomebrew+codesign&type=issues https://github.com/search?q=org%3AHomebrew+codesign&type=iss... [2]: https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/7857#issuecomment-718090426 https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/7857#issuecomment-71...
- bogwog 5y ago
  Oh fuck off with that apologist bs. Scenario: you want to sell an app for Mac. You can put it on the Mac app store and pay Apple’s tax (and live at the mercy of Apple, who are a terrible business partner) Or you can sell it through your website and not pay Apple’s tax. Except if you do this, Apple will tell your customers that you’re potentially a virus, and you have to invest more on customer support and education materials just to teach people how to launch your app (through no fault of your own). In some cases, it’s just not feasible to do this, and you just have to accept reduced sales and/or increased returns/chargebacks from angry customers that blame you for Apple’s decision. Apple’s Mac app store has a huge competitive advantage thanks to this unfair practice. Your competitors will beat you if they put their app on the Mac app store, no matter how much money you invest into advertising and improving your product. That’s anti-competitive behavior from a monopolist. It’s the same situation on Android (it’s actually worse on Android, as Google is the pioneer in this field)
ddingus 5y ago
The machines were often sold with your ability to create software with ease being a feature / benefit selling point. The Apple ][ is the iconic machine, as was the BBC Micro (which has a kick ass BASIC / in-line assembly environment in ROM many Apple ][ users would envy), and heck my machine came with schematics!! The modern Mac is a bit painful. Agreed.

bni 5y ago

This is quite wrong and uniformed. I build and run from source, both my own and from others all the time on my Mac.