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I like to think that a goal does not necessarily need to be achievable in order to be valuable.

jrm4 5y ago
Correct, this is why I relatedly believe the Linux Desktop is actually a ridiculously huge success. I don't compare it by percentage of market share, I compare it do "how garbage would desktops be if Linux wasn't around to provide useful pressure?"
- giantrobot 5y ago
  > I compare it do "how garbage would desktops be if Linux wasn't around to provide useful pressure?" In what world does Linux on the desktop provide "useful pressure" to anyone? The only Linux "desktop" that has provided any pressure on the desktop to Microsoft and Apple is ChromeOS. ChromeOS is decidedly not a "Linux desktop". If Google flipped ChromeOS to Fuchsia tomorrow it would provide the same pressure with zero Linux.
  - bscphil 5y ago
    I mean, there's an argument to be made that Android / ChromeOS / Fuchsia wouldn't exist without Linux either (i.e. not exist as they are or in some similar open source variation). They don't stand quite as independently as you suggest here.
    - giantrobot 5y ago
      The comment I replied to was specifically about Linux on the desktop, not Linux in general. I didn't claim Android etc wouldn't exist without Linux. Linux on the desktop is just irrelevant to commercial desktop OSes. Microsoft, Apple, and Google don't care one iota about the latest updates to GNOME or KDE. Third parties don't care about the Linux desktop either. If Linux is even considered it's a distant third place. If Electron dropped Linux support tomorrow a good number of applications would drop Linux support the next day. Even the likes of Valve supporting Linux is more of a hedge against Microsoft than anything compelling about desktop environments on Linux.
  - bobsmooth 5y ago
    That there is a desktop OS where everything is open reminds people that are alternatives to walled gardens.
    - giantrobot 5y ago
      That is a far cry from "useful pressure".
  - ece 5y ago
    There are more pre-installed Linux desktop/laptop/handheld devices being sold today than ever. For end users, WSL and Crossover do allow for more freedom than if these things didn't exist.
  - jrm4 5y ago
    Go count how many Windows desktop features were widely used on Linux first.
colordrops 5y ago
It's actually important to have difficult or impossible goals. They are guidelines or north stars used for navigation. It helps make short term decisions that trend in the right long term direction.

jrm4 5y ago

Correct, this is why I relatedly believe the Linux Desktop is actually a ridiculously huge success. I don't compare it by percentage of market share, I compare it do "how garbage would desktops be if Linux wasn't around to provide useful pressure?"

giantrobot 5y ago
> I compare it do "how garbage would desktops be if Linux wasn't around to provide useful pressure?" In what world does Linux on the desktop provide "useful pressure" to anyone? The only Linux "desktop" that has provided any pressure on the desktop to Microsoft and Apple is ChromeOS. ChromeOS is decidedly not a "Linux desktop". If Google flipped ChromeOS to Fuchsia tomorrow it would provide the same pressure with zero Linux.
- bscphil 5y ago
  I mean, there's an argument to be made that Android / ChromeOS / Fuchsia wouldn't exist without Linux either (i.e. not exist as they are or in some similar open source variation). They don't stand quite as independently as you suggest here.
  - giantrobot 5y ago
    The comment I replied to was specifically about Linux on the desktop, not Linux in general. I didn't claim Android etc wouldn't exist without Linux. Linux on the desktop is just irrelevant to commercial desktop OSes. Microsoft, Apple, and Google don't care one iota about the latest updates to GNOME or KDE. Third parties don't care about the Linux desktop either. If Linux is even considered it's a distant third place. If Electron dropped Linux support tomorrow a good number of applications would drop Linux support the next day. Even the likes of Valve supporting Linux is more of a hedge against Microsoft than anything compelling about desktop environments on Linux.
- bobsmooth 5y ago
  That there is a desktop OS where everything is open reminds people that are alternatives to walled gardens.
  - giantrobot 5y ago
    That is a far cry from "useful pressure".
- ece 5y ago
  There are more pre-installed Linux desktop/laptop/handheld devices being sold today than ever. For end users, WSL and Crossover do allow for more freedom than if these things didn't exist.
- jrm4 5y ago
  Go count how many Windows desktop features were widely used on Linux first.

colordrops 5y ago

It's actually important to have difficult or impossible goals. They are guidelines or north stars used for navigation. It helps make short term decisions that trend in the right long term direction.