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OpenTTD has more of a focus on transport and economy. This project focuses more on city building like the SimCity games.

elliotec 4y ago
SimCity games had a major focus on transport and economy as well, just as you'd expect from any city builder. Both of these are really just SimCity copies, which I applaud because I am a huge city builder fan. That said, I hope we start seeing something new in the genre soon. Pixel graphics just ain't gonna cut it anymore. I love playing Cities Skylines but I do feel like it's also just a newer copy and would love to see some sort of significant (r)evolution of the genre.
- IggleSniggle 4y ago
  I couldn’t care less about the graphics. I agree with you on the rest.
- steve_coral 4y ago
  I'd be very interested in a city builder where there are meaningful social, cultural, and political dimensions. Games like SimCity and Cities: Skylines have robust, detailed models for aspects like traffic and power distribution, but the actual social modeling is relatively basic. At points they seem more like complex cellular automata than cities (see Magnasanti in SimCity 3k)
  - hutattedonmyarm 4y ago
    I think Pharaoh does a good job at that, although it is quite old. Currently getting a remake though. Cultures: 8th Wonder of The World is leaning heavily into the society aspect as well. However I did find the controls to be extremely irritating by today’s standards
    - NikolaNovak 4y ago
      That's funny... I never heard about Pharaoh until last night when I read a retrospective (1),and now I read about it first thing in the morning :-) 1: https://scientificgamer.com/in-praise-of-pharaoh/ https://scientificgamer.com/in-praise-of-pharaoh/
    - steve_coral 4y ago
      Yes, something that has the in-depth city building mechanics of SimCity with the social modeling of Pharaoh, Caesar, or Europa 1400: The Guild would be incredible.
      - zo1 4y ago
        Don't forget Zeus in that list! Think it was the third iteration in the Caesar->Pharaoh-> city-building genre.
      - mikepurvis 4y ago
        Were the later Caesar games better for that stuff? I remember playing Caesar II back in the day, and even as a kid feeling that it was a bit on the shallow side— like the main objective at city level was just to get as much tax revenue as possible, and that meant getting your housing to be more luxurious, and that meant exposing the housing to as many amenities as possible. But the exposure was basically just making sure there was enough of everything close by that the walkers spawned by each building would find their way to each residence before their previous visit had "worn off".
  - xorcist 4y ago
    City simulators seems to a large extent exist to reinforce the idea that cities == cars. It bores me.
    - pjerem 4y ago
      Cities Skylines have a good walking and cycling modeling alongside an excellent public transport system. You can totally create a city with really little trafic. Even industrial trafic can be done essentially via rail or via seaway. It seems that most (all?) actors in the game will prefer your infrastructures over the road as long as they are more efficient. You can now even add toll gates on the road to make the incentive even stronger.
    - poser-boy 4y ago
      That because most cities right now are road/car-based. Maybe once Cytopia is further developed walk-able cities can be designed.
    - mikepurvis 4y ago
      As the sibling says, Cities Skylines definitely does a better job than its predecessors of legitimizing non-car strategies for managing transportation. However, as the player, the path of least resistance is absolutely to just do roads everywhere and bulldoze buildings and houses to widen roads (just like in the real world). I don't think CS has much/any modeling for the longer-time-horizon benefits of an active-transportation city, in terms of culture, health, pollution reduction, and so on. So yes, it's a major step forward in terms of it being possible at all, but it's something you have to be pretty intentional about— and maybe that's reflective of the real world too. But it's always nice when media (games, books, movies, whatever) inspires us to dream bigger than we might otherwise have done.
    - speeder 4y ago
      I am a fan of city simulators and I found out the reason for this is all of them copy the USA style zoning system in their rules. USA style zoning is just stupid and is a major culprit of cities needing cars. As far as I know there is no major city simulator that simulates non-zoned cities that are full of organic growth instead of the player, like a US mayor, deciding where people are allowed and not allowed to live and work.
  - staindk 4y ago
    The Tropico games may interest you. I had a lot of fun playing them when I was younger (think I played Tropico 1 and 3, but not sure exactly). I recall them being quite tricky and including political/social aspects (you need to appease your people to be re-elected etc), but since I haven't played them in years that stuff might not be as deep as I remember. Do have a look though and see if it'll suit you!
    - mikepurvis 4y ago
      I played some Tropico 4 and 5 in recent years and had a decent time of it. I think I ended up in a love/hate relationship with the mission structure, though. On the one hand, having a series of shorter "scenarios" with concrete goals is good for gameplay and helps give shape to the overall game in a way that old-school endless city builders lacked, plus it fits with the deeply cynical lore of the game, about you playing as a wannabe dictator bouncing between banana republics and doing the bare minimum to keep them afloat as you line your own pockets by sending cash to the Swiss bank account. But that structure also meant that I struggled to feel as much long-term ownership over what I was creating. It felt like I could get away with cutting certain corners that I shouldn't have if the game forced me to sit just a little bit longer with the consequences of my actions. Maybe that's just a sign that I was playing it right, but I felt like I would have had a better time if I'd been just a little bit more accountable.
  - Renaud 4y ago
    >'d be very interested in a city builder where there are meaningful social, cultural, and political dimensions. You may be interested in CityState II: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1352850/Citystate_II/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1352850/Citystate_II/
- andai 4y ago
  I'm a big fan of pixel art, but the screenshots on the GitHub are a bit too "programmer art" for my liking.
- derefr 4y ago
  > Pixel graphics just ain't gonna cut it anymore. How so? To be honest, I don't know why we even need something as "realistic" as pixel graphics — when immersing yourself in city planning, an aerial view of the city you're building is actually too much noise; for the signal you need, it'd be far better to be looking directly at overlaid zoning grids, coverage maps, etc. And for that kind of thing, it seems that vector graphics should be more than enough. In other words, I'd personally love a full-sim city builder in the style of Mini Metro or Mini Motorways. That sort of simple+clean aesthetic can be a lot more informationally-dense than a SimCity game ever could.
  - lioeters 4y ago
    Ooh, thanks for the mention, these games look lovely: https://dinopoloclub.com/games/mini-metro/ https://dinopoloclub.com/games/mini-metro/ https://dinopoloclub.com/games/mini-motorways/ https://dinopoloclub.com/games/mini-motorways/
  - gigglesupstairs 4y ago
    I’ve played Mini Metro. Love its minimal and non-intrusive aesthetics but it doesn’t use pixel art the way game in question is using. Its graphics treatment is way different.
    - derefr 4y ago
      I didn’t say they did. I said they used vector graphics (more specifically, they use vector schematics), with the implication that these vector graphics are “lesser” even than pixel graphics in terms of potential for representational fidelity / skeuomorphism — but also that this doesn’t matter (and in fact, is a benefit), because most sim games are fundamentally about simulating abstract models, not about simulating reality; so a direct representation of the model is clearer and more "fun" than any attempt to embed that model into a view of reality.
  - rhdunn 4y ago
    Also, games like Stardew Valley use pixel graphics (pixel art) and that hasn't hurt their popularity.
- poglet 4y ago
  Transport Tycoon is probably more of a copy of Railroad Tycoon.
  - ninjin 4y ago
    Absolutely not, get your facts straight: “Though [Railroad Tycoon] shares the "Tycoon" suffix, it is not related to other Microprose games such as RollerCoaster Tycoon and Transport Tycoon, which were developed by Scottish programmer Chris Sawyer.” [1] There are similarities, yes, but they play very differently. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Tycoon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Tycoon They are all great games – although I am greatly favourable to Transport Tycoon – but do not fall for Microprose’s 90s naming that most likely was purely for marketing reasons.
    - poglet 4y ago
      I agree with you. My argument was against Transport Tycoon being a copy of SimCity.
- hnlmorg 4y ago
  OpenTTD isn’t a Sim City copy. Its a reimplement of Transport Tycoon. It’s a strategy game that focuses on business that covers multiple cities and industrial works. While city builders are a subset of strategy games, not all strategy sims are city builders. Examples of how the strategy genre covers more than just city builders would be: Theme Park, The Settlers, Theme Hospital, Railroad Tycoon, Populous, Command & Conquerer and Civilisation. Sim City isn’t even the first city builder, let along first strategy sim. The genre has existed since the days of text-based games. Though it’s fair to say Sim City is one of the most iconic and successful entries in the genre.
- SimplyLiz 4y ago
  I chose this artstyle for Cytopia because I wanted to created a game in the Spirit of SC2000. This is still my favorite city builder but it’s way outdated in terms of gameplay. And I love pixelart.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  OpenTTD is not at all Sim City. You can't build stuff, you focus on building transport infrastructure between existing cities and resources.

elliotec 4y ago

SimCity games had a major focus on transport and economy as well, just as you'd expect from any city builder. Both of these are really just SimCity copies, which I applaud because I am a huge city builder fan. That said, I hope we start seeing something new in the genre soon. Pixel graphics just ain't gonna cut it anymore. I love playing Cities Skylines but I do feel like it's also just a newer copy and would love to see some sort of significant (r)evolution of the genre.

IggleSniggle 4y ago
I couldn’t care less about the graphics. I agree with you on the rest.
steve_coral 4y ago
I'd be very interested in a city builder where there are meaningful social, cultural, and political dimensions. Games like SimCity and Cities: Skylines have robust, detailed models for aspects like traffic and power distribution, but the actual social modeling is relatively basic. At points they seem more like complex cellular automata than cities (see Magnasanti in SimCity 3k)
- hutattedonmyarm 4y ago
  I think Pharaoh does a good job at that, although it is quite old. Currently getting a remake though. Cultures: 8th Wonder of The World is leaning heavily into the society aspect as well. However I did find the controls to be extremely irritating by today’s standards
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    That's funny... I never heard about Pharaoh until last night when I read a retrospective (1),and now I read about it first thing in the morning :-) 1: https://scientificgamer.com/in-praise-of-pharaoh/ https://scientificgamer.com/in-praise-of-pharaoh/
  - steve_coral 4y ago
    Yes, something that has the in-depth city building mechanics of SimCity with the social modeling of Pharaoh, Caesar, or Europa 1400: The Guild would be incredible.
    - zo1 4y ago
      Don't forget Zeus in that list! Think it was the third iteration in the Caesar->Pharaoh-> city-building genre.
    - mikepurvis 4y ago
      Were the later Caesar games better for that stuff? I remember playing Caesar II back in the day, and even as a kid feeling that it was a bit on the shallow side— like the main objective at city level was just to get as much tax revenue as possible, and that meant getting your housing to be more luxurious, and that meant exposing the housing to as many amenities as possible. But the exposure was basically just making sure there was enough of everything close by that the walkers spawned by each building would find their way to each residence before their previous visit had "worn off".
- xorcist 4y ago
  City simulators seems to a large extent exist to reinforce the idea that cities == cars. It bores me.
  - pjerem 4y ago
    Cities Skylines have a good walking and cycling modeling alongside an excellent public transport system. You can totally create a city with really little trafic. Even industrial trafic can be done essentially via rail or via seaway. It seems that most (all?) actors in the game will prefer your infrastructures over the road as long as they are more efficient. You can now even add toll gates on the road to make the incentive even stronger.
  - poser-boy 4y ago
    That because most cities right now are road/car-based. Maybe once Cytopia is further developed walk-able cities can be designed.
  - mikepurvis 4y ago
    As the sibling says, Cities Skylines definitely does a better job than its predecessors of legitimizing non-car strategies for managing transportation. However, as the player, the path of least resistance is absolutely to just do roads everywhere and bulldoze buildings and houses to widen roads (just like in the real world). I don't think CS has much/any modeling for the longer-time-horizon benefits of an active-transportation city, in terms of culture, health, pollution reduction, and so on. So yes, it's a major step forward in terms of it being possible at all, but it's something you have to be pretty intentional about— and maybe that's reflective of the real world too. But it's always nice when media (games, books, movies, whatever) inspires us to dream bigger than we might otherwise have done.
  - speeder 4y ago
    I am a fan of city simulators and I found out the reason for this is all of them copy the USA style zoning system in their rules. USA style zoning is just stupid and is a major culprit of cities needing cars. As far as I know there is no major city simulator that simulates non-zoned cities that are full of organic growth instead of the player, like a US mayor, deciding where people are allowed and not allowed to live and work.
- staindk 4y ago
  The Tropico games may interest you. I had a lot of fun playing them when I was younger (think I played Tropico 1 and 3, but not sure exactly). I recall them being quite tricky and including political/social aspects (you need to appease your people to be re-elected etc), but since I haven't played them in years that stuff might not be as deep as I remember. Do have a look though and see if it'll suit you!
  - mikepurvis 4y ago
    I played some Tropico 4 and 5 in recent years and had a decent time of it. I think I ended up in a love/hate relationship with the mission structure, though. On the one hand, having a series of shorter "scenarios" with concrete goals is good for gameplay and helps give shape to the overall game in a way that old-school endless city builders lacked, plus it fits with the deeply cynical lore of the game, about you playing as a wannabe dictator bouncing between banana republics and doing the bare minimum to keep them afloat as you line your own pockets by sending cash to the Swiss bank account. But that structure also meant that I struggled to feel as much long-term ownership over what I was creating. It felt like I could get away with cutting certain corners that I shouldn't have if the game forced me to sit just a little bit longer with the consequences of my actions. Maybe that's just a sign that I was playing it right, but I felt like I would have had a better time if I'd been just a little bit more accountable.
- Renaud 4y ago
  >'d be very interested in a city builder where there are meaningful social, cultural, and political dimensions. You may be interested in CityState II: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1352850/Citystate_II/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1352850/Citystate_II/
andai 4y ago
I'm a big fan of pixel art, but the screenshots on the GitHub are a bit too "programmer art" for my liking.
derefr 4y ago
> Pixel graphics just ain't gonna cut it anymore. How so? To be honest, I don't know why we even need something as "realistic" as pixel graphics — when immersing yourself in city planning, an aerial view of the city you're building is actually too much noise; for the signal you need, it'd be far better to be looking directly at overlaid zoning grids, coverage maps, etc. And for that kind of thing, it seems that vector graphics should be more than enough. In other words, I'd personally love a full-sim city builder in the style of Mini Metro or Mini Motorways. That sort of simple+clean aesthetic can be a lot more informationally-dense than a SimCity game ever could.
- lioeters 4y ago
  Ooh, thanks for the mention, these games look lovely: https://dinopoloclub.com/games/mini-metro/ https://dinopoloclub.com/games/mini-metro/ https://dinopoloclub.com/games/mini-motorways/ https://dinopoloclub.com/games/mini-motorways/
- gigglesupstairs 4y ago
  I’ve played Mini Metro. Love its minimal and non-intrusive aesthetics but it doesn’t use pixel art the way game in question is using. Its graphics treatment is way different.
  - derefr 4y ago
    I didn’t say they did. I said they used vector graphics (more specifically, they use vector schematics), with the implication that these vector graphics are “lesser” even than pixel graphics in terms of potential for representational fidelity / skeuomorphism — but also that this doesn’t matter (and in fact, is a benefit), because most sim games are fundamentally about simulating abstract models, not about simulating reality; so a direct representation of the model is clearer and more "fun" than any attempt to embed that model into a view of reality.
- rhdunn 4y ago
  Also, games like Stardew Valley use pixel graphics (pixel art) and that hasn't hurt their popularity.
poglet 4y ago
Transport Tycoon is probably more of a copy of Railroad Tycoon.
- ninjin 4y ago
  Absolutely not, get your facts straight: “Though [Railroad Tycoon] shares the "Tycoon" suffix, it is not related to other Microprose games such as RollerCoaster Tycoon and Transport Tycoon, which were developed by Scottish programmer Chris Sawyer.” [1] There are similarities, yes, but they play very differently. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Tycoon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Tycoon They are all great games – although I am greatly favourable to Transport Tycoon – but do not fall for Microprose’s 90s naming that most likely was purely for marketing reasons.
  - poglet 4y ago
    I agree with you. My argument was against Transport Tycoon being a copy of SimCity.
hnlmorg 4y ago
OpenTTD isn’t a Sim City copy. Its a reimplement of Transport Tycoon. It’s a strategy game that focuses on business that covers multiple cities and industrial works. While city builders are a subset of strategy games, not all strategy sims are city builders. Examples of how the strategy genre covers more than just city builders would be: Theme Park, The Settlers, Theme Hospital, Railroad Tycoon, Populous, Command & Conquerer and Civilisation. Sim City isn’t even the first city builder, let along first strategy sim. The genre has existed since the days of text-based games. Though it’s fair to say Sim City is one of the most iconic and successful entries in the genre.
SimplyLiz 4y ago
I chose this artstyle for Cytopia because I wanted to created a game in the Spirit of SC2000. This is still my favorite city builder but it’s way outdated in terms of gameplay. And I love pixelart.
ekianjo 4y ago
OpenTTD is not at all Sim City. You can't build stuff, you focus on building transport infrastructure between existing cities and resources.