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Wow.. just wow, there is so much I can say about your comment that I'm curious if you're just trolling. I'll answer you anyway. At what point have I ever said

by froo 18y ago

Wow.. just wow, there is so much I can say about your comment that I'm curious if you're just trolling. I'll answer you anyway. At what point have I ever said (or implied) I was anti-American on this site, or any other site (I use a similar handle on every site, so it can be verified) or for that matter EVER. The answer? Never, because I am simply not anti-American. Your kind of insular attitude proves exactly what I'm saying. EDIT - For the record: I thought the Americans and the Aussies were allies? Why else were the British and the Aussies the first 2 countries to sign up for the coalition on the willing and along with the American and British the only countries that provided significant military presence in the gulf (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2862343.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2862343.stm) Didn't we also send troops to Afghanistan? Both of these military actions were unpopular in Australia from day zero and both of which hurt trade agreements in the middle east for us (depending on who you talk too, some have suggested it has increased our chances for retaliatory terrorist acts, I simply don't know though), but we went anyway. Also, moving away from military alliances, we only had a change of Government last year so things have changed since but for a while, both the Americans and the Australians were the only 2 countries to have not signed the Kyoto Protocol. This was mostly due to Howard wanting to not have the Americans as the only country as not having signed (he was very pro-american). Within a week of a change of government, Rudd had signed and it was well received by the public.

anamax 18y ago
> At what point have I ever said (or implied) I was anti-American on this site My apologies. I didn't intend "you" personally, but the "It's just that there is a growing anti-American sentiment in the rest of the world" (as I quoted). > Your kind of insular attitude proves exactly what I'm saying. Huh? You said that there was a growing anti-American sentiment. While I agree, how does what I said prove that? Or, are you saying that I proved something that you didn't state explicitly? If so, what? > For the record: I thought the Americans and the Aussies were allies? So? Your strongest argument would be that Australians are probably Americans' most popular "not Americans". (Canadians have gone with a curious mix of invisibility and defining themselves as "not American".) And, you seem to take care of them yourselves. However, that doesn't change the fact that much of what the US sees overseas is folks with their hands out. We also see folks screaming about the US "doing it wrong" when they're not doing it at all. Maybe we're incorrect, but I'm talking sentiment, as you did. There is no shortage of problems in the world. Surely some of them can be taken care of by someone else. Rwanda was well within the capabilities of many other countries. Somalia is as well.
- froo 18y ago
  > Huh? You said that there was a growing anti-American sentiment. While I agree, how does what I said prove that? Well, I'll give an example - theres is/was fairly popular show (I don't watch TV all that much, so I'm unsure of its current status) here in Australia called CNNNN that satirised fox news/cnn. The guys who created it have since gone on to create a tv show called the Chaser's War on Everything" Here's one of the more popular clips from CNNNN entitled "Stupid Americans" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp4iI59BfpQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp4iI59BfpQ What I gleamed from your comment was the attitude of "Americans dont need anyone else, fuck the rest of the world" In the above clip, particularly pay attention where they're placing pins in countries that these people want to invade. These people more than likely vote and apart from 2 of them, they don't look like political radicals or crazy people. >> For the record: I thought the Americans and the Aussies were allies? > So? That is the exact attitude I am talking about. Semi related - A little anecdote I thought was absolutely hilarious (but also tragic) at the time was that in the early stages of the Iraq war the media was doing lots of broadcasts from that media center they set up. One of the popular media outlets (I forget which, it was Fox or CNN) had a large map of the world which their reporters stood in front of to make broadcasts. It was just a general outline of continents. They actually removed Australia from the map because it was where the reporters were supposed to stand and it was interfering with the shot. What a fantastic way to treat one of the 2 allies that sent military support :)
  - anamax 18y ago
    In other words, we agree that there is a growing anti-American sentiment outside the US. I'm pointing out that a lot of the US doesn't care and explaining some of why they don't. I'm also asking you to explain why they should. Let's take Australia's contribution in Afghanistan. Australia's military, man for man, is amazing. However, it isn't that big. It's a smaller contribution than Texas. If anti-American sentiment kept Australia from joining in some of the US' foreign activities, one of two things would happen - we'd go it alone with roughly the same outcome or we wouldn't go it at all. As to the behavior of US media outlets wrt allies, you're seriously confused if you think that they give US interests any weight. The canonical example is a discussion of media ethics during the Vietnam war. A US reporter was asked if he'd tip off some US troops walking into an ambush. He agonized for a while and then said that he would, but would feel bad about it. His fellow media types jumped down his throat and he retracted. Or, we can take a more recent example. AP is quite critical of surveillance of suspected terrorists and insisted that there's a public right to know of the methods. Fair enough. However, when the govt asked for information about the break-in to Palin's e-mail, AP declined. Of course, if it had been Biden's e-mail, the reaction would have been very different. However, your observation that they left out Australia because it interfered with their shot is probably correct. It wasn't a planned snub - they didn't give it that much thought.

by froo 18y ago

anamax 18y ago

> At what point have I ever said (or implied) I was anti-American on this site My apologies. I didn't intend "you" personally, but the "It's just that there is a growing anti-American sentiment in the rest of the world" (as I quoted). > Your kind of insular attitude proves exactly what I'm saying. Huh? You said that there was a growing anti-American sentiment. While I agree, how does what I said prove that? Or, are you saying that I proved something that you didn't state explicitly? If so, what? > For the record: I thought the Americans and the Aussies were allies? So? Your strongest argument would be that Australians are probably Americans' most popular "not Americans". (Canadians have gone with a curious mix of invisibility and defining themselves as "not American".) And, you seem to take care of them yourselves. However, that doesn't change the fact that much of what the US sees overseas is folks with their hands out. We also see folks screaming about the US "doing it wrong" when they're not doing it at all. Maybe we're incorrect, but I'm talking sentiment, as you did. There is no shortage of problems in the world. Surely some of them can be taken care of by someone else. Rwanda was well within the capabilities of many other countries. Somalia is as well.

froo 18y ago
> Huh? You said that there was a growing anti-American sentiment. While I agree, how does what I said prove that? Well, I'll give an example - theres is/was fairly popular show (I don't watch TV all that much, so I'm unsure of its current status) here in Australia called CNNNN that satirised fox news/cnn. The guys who created it have since gone on to create a tv show called the Chaser's War on Everything" Here's one of the more popular clips from CNNNN entitled "Stupid Americans" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp4iI59BfpQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp4iI59BfpQ What I gleamed from your comment was the attitude of "Americans dont need anyone else, fuck the rest of the world" In the above clip, particularly pay attention where they're placing pins in countries that these people want to invade. These people more than likely vote and apart from 2 of them, they don't look like political radicals or crazy people. >> For the record: I thought the Americans and the Aussies were allies? > So? That is the exact attitude I am talking about. Semi related - A little anecdote I thought was absolutely hilarious (but also tragic) at the time was that in the early stages of the Iraq war the media was doing lots of broadcasts from that media center they set up. One of the popular media outlets (I forget which, it was Fox or CNN) had a large map of the world which their reporters stood in front of to make broadcasts. It was just a general outline of continents. They actually removed Australia from the map because it was where the reporters were supposed to stand and it was interfering with the shot. What a fantastic way to treat one of the 2 allies that sent military support :)
- anamax 18y ago
  In other words, we agree that there is a growing anti-American sentiment outside the US. I'm pointing out that a lot of the US doesn't care and explaining some of why they don't. I'm also asking you to explain why they should. Let's take Australia's contribution in Afghanistan. Australia's military, man for man, is amazing. However, it isn't that big. It's a smaller contribution than Texas. If anti-American sentiment kept Australia from joining in some of the US' foreign activities, one of two things would happen - we'd go it alone with roughly the same outcome or we wouldn't go it at all. As to the behavior of US media outlets wrt allies, you're seriously confused if you think that they give US interests any weight. The canonical example is a discussion of media ethics during the Vietnam war. A US reporter was asked if he'd tip off some US troops walking into an ambush. He agonized for a while and then said that he would, but would feel bad about it. His fellow media types jumped down his throat and he retracted. Or, we can take a more recent example. AP is quite critical of surveillance of suspected terrorists and insisted that there's a public right to know of the methods. Fair enough. However, when the govt asked for information about the break-in to Palin's e-mail, AP declined. Of course, if it had been Biden's e-mail, the reaction would have been very different. However, your observation that they left out Australia because it interfered with their shot is probably correct. It wasn't a planned snub - they didn't give it that much thought.