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I don’t understand the security chip. So it expects a series of numbers. If you record those numbers, you are violating Nintendos copyright. But asking for the

I don’t understand the security chip. So it expects a series of numbers. If you record those numbers, you are violating Nintendos copyright. But asking for them from the copyright office to use in court and then productionize them is okay?

Arainach 5y ago
No, taking the code from the copyright office wasn't OK, but by the time the court cases were making progress the NES didn't really matter any more and they settled outside of court. Also, recording the numbers doesn't necessarily work. The chip is essentially an algorithm. I haven't dug through the source to understand the algorithm, but imagine a basic scenario where the algorithm is "challenge * 3" If the challenge is "1 2 3" and you record a response of "3 6 9", that response won't work if the next challenge is "2 4 6". If you actually dig into the chip and copy their algorithm, that can be copyright infringement (yes there's clean room reverse engineering, but if the logic is convoluted enough that can be rather difficult and take time)
- jrockway 5y ago
  Clean room reverse engineering is for the case where you want to translate source code to source code and prove that you didn't just copy and paste it. (It's pretty easy for two people to generate the exact same bytes of source code for any given algorithm. The documentation around clean room reverse engineering is to prove that you independently came up with the same thing. The code is copyrightable, the idea isn't.) If you open up some chip and look at it under the microscope and translate the transistors you see into C code, that's not copyright infringement. (But it might be patented. Patents are super weird in that if you come up with an idea completely independently of someone else, and the other person patents it, you're not allowed to use the idea!)
- tedunangst 5y ago
  The source, since I was curious. https://hackmii.com/2010/01/the-weird-and-wonderful-cic/ https://hackmii.com/2010/01/the-weird-and-wonderful-cic/
yosefjaved1 5y ago
Atari actually got the code illegally from the copyright office. Here's a video discussing that portion - https://youtu.be/fLA_d9q6ySs?t=11m37s https://youtu.be/fLA_d9q6ySs?t=11m37s

Arainach 5y ago

No, taking the code from the copyright office wasn't OK, but by the time the court cases were making progress the NES didn't really matter any more and they settled outside of court. Also, recording the numbers doesn't necessarily work. The chip is essentially an algorithm. I haven't dug through the source to understand the algorithm, but imagine a basic scenario where the algorithm is "challenge * 3" If the challenge is "1 2 3" and you record a response of "3 6 9", that response won't work if the next challenge is "2 4 6". If you actually dig into the chip and copy their algorithm, that can be copyright infringement (yes there's clean room reverse engineering, but if the logic is convoluted enough that can be rather difficult and take time)

jrockway 5y ago
Clean room reverse engineering is for the case where you want to translate source code to source code and prove that you didn't just copy and paste it. (It's pretty easy for two people to generate the exact same bytes of source code for any given algorithm. The documentation around clean room reverse engineering is to prove that you independently came up with the same thing. The code is copyrightable, the idea isn't.) If you open up some chip and look at it under the microscope and translate the transistors you see into C code, that's not copyright infringement. (But it might be patented. Patents are super weird in that if you come up with an idea completely independently of someone else, and the other person patents it, you're not allowed to use the idea!)
tedunangst 5y ago
The source, since I was curious. https://hackmii.com/2010/01/the-weird-and-wonderful-cic/ https://hackmii.com/2010/01/the-weird-and-wonderful-cic/

yosefjaved1 5y ago

Atari actually got the code illegally from the copyright office. Here's a video discussing that portion - https://youtu.be/fLA_d9q6ySs?t=11m37s https://youtu.be/fLA_d9q6ySs?t=11m37s