4 ms·

Is there a search alternative that isn't just using Google or Bing underneath? DDG is just Bing and all the recent filtering and what not that Bing has been doi

Is there a search alternative that isn't just using Google or Bing underneath? DDG is just Bing and all the recent filtering and what not that Bing has been doing also applies to DDG. Many things that used to show up on DDG no longer do.

freediver 5y ago
There are plenty - Kagi, Brave, Mojeek, Yandex, Rightdao, Gigablast...
- vvf1 5y ago
- mlindner 5y ago
  Doesn't Brave also use Bing underneath?
  - xigoi 5y ago
    If their about page isn't lying, about 90% of their results are original.
  - schmorptron 5y ago
    They bought the cliqz team and their work / tech when that died, so I'd assume they're using what those people had been building.
- sylware 5y ago
  I guess we need an up-to-date wikipedia page about all those alternatives.
- DanHulton 5y ago
  Been using Kagi for the last week and the search results have been SURPRISINGLY good. Like, in the "I don't have to scroll to find it" category of good, and no having to deal with spam sites that just copy the actual answer but somehow rank higher than the original, like currently plagues Google.
  - Semaphor 5y ago
    And even if you disagree with their ranking, you can change ranking weights for domains yourself.
  - AndrewVos 5y ago
    This is probably because Kagi uses Google and Bing indexes.
  - ghostly_s 5y ago
    That revenue model is crazy, no way will they last.
    - Semaphor 5y ago
      > That revenue model is crazy, no way will they last. Why? Their plan is to be an amazing SE, but only for the comparatively small amount of people that are willing to pay. They aren’t VC funded but boostrapped, so they don’t need to ruin a good thing for dumb returns.
      - Gareth321 5y ago
        I believe that their pricing will keep their potential customer base too small to remain commercially viable. I'm sure you've seen a supply and demand curve before. The optimal price point isn't where the price is highest, because then no one buys the product/service. It's actually where sufficient customers can afford the product/service to maximise profit. There are very few people willing to pay $30/month for a search engine. Even if Kagi can convince 1,000 people to do so, I do not believe $30,000 a month in revenue will even keep the lights on. It is highly likely that $5/month, for example, would attract millions of users, and $25 million/month would certainly keep the lights on.
        Semaphor 5y ago
        $30 is not the price unless you need a lot of searches. Looking at my consumption tab, I’m usually below $10/month, so I’ll probably end up in a $10-$20 plan. Some napkin math gives around 2,550 searches per month at $30, Vlad said in Discord $30 is for people who want around 100 searches every day. Also, you can’t forget that every search actually costs them money, as every single search incurs the fee from Google and Microsoft for their APIs. I think there was an idea around having a $5 trial plan with only 10 searches a day or something. Unlimited searches for $5 would be "We are losing money on every customer, but we are making it up in volume"
- AndrewVos 5y ago
  Kagi uses both Google and Bing index.
theandrewbailey 5y ago
> Brave Search is built on top of a completely independent index, and doesn’t track users, their searches, or their clicks. https://brave.com/brave-search-beta/ https://brave.com/brave-search-beta/

freediver 5y ago

There are plenty - Kagi, Brave, Mojeek, Yandex, Rightdao, Gigablast...

vvf1 5y ago
mlindner 5y ago
Doesn't Brave also use Bing underneath?
- xigoi 5y ago
  If their about page isn't lying, about 90% of their results are original.
- schmorptron 5y ago
  They bought the cliqz team and their work / tech when that died, so I'd assume they're using what those people had been building.
sylware 5y ago
I guess we need an up-to-date wikipedia page about all those alternatives.
DanHulton 5y ago
Been using Kagi for the last week and the search results have been SURPRISINGLY good. Like, in the "I don't have to scroll to find it" category of good, and no having to deal with spam sites that just copy the actual answer but somehow rank higher than the original, like currently plagues Google.
- Semaphor 5y ago
  And even if you disagree with their ranking, you can change ranking weights for domains yourself.
- AndrewVos 5y ago
  This is probably because Kagi uses Google and Bing indexes.
- ghostly_s 5y ago
  That revenue model is crazy, no way will they last.
  - Semaphor 5y ago
    > That revenue model is crazy, no way will they last. Why? Their plan is to be an amazing SE, but only for the comparatively small amount of people that are willing to pay. They aren’t VC funded but boostrapped, so they don’t need to ruin a good thing for dumb returns.
    - Gareth321 5y ago
      I believe that their pricing will keep their potential customer base too small to remain commercially viable. I'm sure you've seen a supply and demand curve before. The optimal price point isn't where the price is highest, because then no one buys the product/service. It's actually where sufficient customers can afford the product/service to maximise profit. There are very few people willing to pay $30/month for a search engine. Even if Kagi can convince 1,000 people to do so, I do not believe $30,000 a month in revenue will even keep the lights on. It is highly likely that $5/month, for example, would attract millions of users, and $25 million/month would certainly keep the lights on.
      - Semaphor 5y ago
        $30 is not the price unless you need a lot of searches. Looking at my consumption tab, I’m usually below $10/month, so I’ll probably end up in a $10-$20 plan. Some napkin math gives around 2,550 searches per month at $30, Vlad said in Discord $30 is for people who want around 100 searches every day. Also, you can’t forget that every search actually costs them money, as every single search incurs the fee from Google and Microsoft for their APIs. I think there was an idea around having a $5 trial plan with only 10 searches a day or something. Unlimited searches for $5 would be "We are losing money on every customer, but we are making it up in volume"
AndrewVos 5y ago
Kagi uses both Google and Bing index.

theandrewbailey 5y ago

> Brave Search is built on top of a completely independent index, and doesn’t track users, their searches, or their clicks. https://brave.com/brave-search-beta/ https://brave.com/brave-search-beta/