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>Does it encourage physical get togethers? I generally agree with all the points (minus the obvious caveats), but I'd prefer if we'd push back against the whol

>Does it encourage physical get togethers? I generally agree with all the points (minus the obvious caveats), but I'd prefer if we'd push back against the whole "happy work family" mantra. Some of us don't mind being seen as "just that guy doing the job from a distance", but do mind other people trying to make us more than that. For me, part of remote work is to get away from continuous pushing towards more socialization. Whenever someone says 'encourage', it often seems to loop around to a negative if you don't want to participate.

axg11 5y ago
I'm the complete opposite to you. I respect your opinion, so I think the question is even more important to ask. I'm not interested in working for a company where everyone is antisocial and the only interaction is through code reviews.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Exactly. No one is "wrong." But if your position is that you never want to travel period, that's something you should discuss in the first phone screen if it's a hard condition. (And of course the converse is true as well. If the company is remote-first and doesn't believe in employees getting together physically that will be a showstopper for some.)
- drewcoo 5y ago
  The problem is that so much of the work-sponsored open socialization feels fake. Fake smiles and say fake things. Everyone has to type the same "kudos" message for every accomplishment or they're not showing teamwork. The team I was on where everyone had to snap audibly in applause for anyone else "sharing." The pressure to drink together because that's what shows friendship in a frat. Etc. So much garbage!
  - moltar 5y ago
    Feels sickening to even read that. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
- moltar 5y ago
  I don’t consider myself anti social a single bit. My wife describes me as extremely social and I talk to everyone around me. But I subscribe to what OP said. I don’t want to be forced to socialize at some work event. I’m happy to socialize with everyone during work in that context. We can chit chat. We can have a water cooler conversation. We can talk about personal lives and families. And I’ll happily and genuinely engage. But I don’t want any forced activities, get togethers or Xmas parties.
scruple 5y ago
I have similar feelings and thoughts about remote work, I've been working remote in some capacity for over a decade, but I'm careful to ensure that remote doesn't turn into isolated. I've seen that happen before, both to myself and to others, and it's a dangerous place to be in a team environment.
move-on-by 5y ago
Physical get togethers in a remote-first company means I have to travel for that get together. I live in a rural area with no direct flights to anywhere other then major airline hubs, so now I have a layover somewhere and it’s basically an entire day of traveling to go anywhere. That’s 2 days travel for the round trip. Since it’s so much work to get everyone together, might as well make a week out of it. So that’s 3 working days plus the 2 travel days. It’s not unlikely one of those working days is going to be a ‘fun’ event day to make it all ‘worth it’ for people to travel- meaning just 2 productive working days. So a week of working 24 hour days (if I’m not at home with my family then it’s work), for perhaps 2 or 3 productive days. Considering I’m not traveling an entire day, I’m looking at at 96 hour week for maybe 16-24 hours worth of productive time. I get that we are not robots and being on a team is a very social activity- but I am entirely against traveling. We’ve had some really fun remote game-days during work hours and setting aside time to chat with team members is fun too. Please don’t make me travel and waste all the time away from my family and loved ones.
- ghaff 5y ago
  And you should work for a company that is a match for you. I've worked on mostly remote teams but, pre-COVID, occasional off-sites were really not optional. Which seems reasonable barring exceptional circumstances. The lack of same has really been something of an issue the past couple of years. Of course, people should choose their own circumstances as well as they can.
drewcoo 5y ago
> push back against the whole "happy work family" mantra I agree wholeheartedly. The company is not my family. It must pay me to be there. I also think "team-building" is ridiculous. If people need to interact more, to socialize, that should be built into the work. Engineering is a group activity. Treating social aspects of it as side-effects is just broken.

axg11 5y ago

I'm the complete opposite to you. I respect your opinion, so I think the question is even more important to ask. I'm not interested in working for a company where everyone is antisocial and the only interaction is through code reviews.

ghaff 5y ago
Exactly. No one is "wrong." But if your position is that you never want to travel period, that's something you should discuss in the first phone screen if it's a hard condition. (And of course the converse is true as well. If the company is remote-first and doesn't believe in employees getting together physically that will be a showstopper for some.)
drewcoo 5y ago
The problem is that so much of the work-sponsored open socialization feels fake. Fake smiles and say fake things. Everyone has to type the same "kudos" message for every accomplishment or they're not showing teamwork. The team I was on where everyone had to snap audibly in applause for anyone else "sharing." The pressure to drink together because that's what shows friendship in a frat. Etc. So much garbage!
- moltar 5y ago
  Feels sickening to even read that. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
moltar 5y ago
I don’t consider myself anti social a single bit. My wife describes me as extremely social and I talk to everyone around me. But I subscribe to what OP said. I don’t want to be forced to socialize at some work event. I’m happy to socialize with everyone during work in that context. We can chit chat. We can have a water cooler conversation. We can talk about personal lives and families. And I’ll happily and genuinely engage. But I don’t want any forced activities, get togethers or Xmas parties.

scruple 5y ago

I have similar feelings and thoughts about remote work, I've been working remote in some capacity for over a decade, but I'm careful to ensure that remote doesn't turn into isolated. I've seen that happen before, both to myself and to others, and it's a dangerous place to be in a team environment.

move-on-by 5y ago

Physical get togethers in a remote-first company means I have to travel for that get together. I live in a rural area with no direct flights to anywhere other then major airline hubs, so now I have a layover somewhere and it’s basically an entire day of traveling to go anywhere. That’s 2 days travel for the round trip. Since it’s so much work to get everyone together, might as well make a week out of it. So that’s 3 working days plus the 2 travel days. It’s not unlikely one of those working days is going to be a ‘fun’ event day to make it all ‘worth it’ for people to travel- meaning just 2 productive working days. So a week of working 24 hour days (if I’m not at home with my family then it’s work), for perhaps 2 or 3 productive days. Considering I’m not traveling an entire day, I’m looking at at 96 hour week for maybe 16-24 hours worth of productive time. I get that we are not robots and being on a team is a very social activity- but I am entirely against traveling. We’ve had some really fun remote game-days during work hours and setting aside time to chat with team members is fun too. Please don’t make me travel and waste all the time away from my family and loved ones.

ghaff 5y ago
And you should work for a company that is a match for you. I've worked on mostly remote teams but, pre-COVID, occasional off-sites were really not optional. Which seems reasonable barring exceptional circumstances. The lack of same has really been something of an issue the past couple of years. Of course, people should choose their own circumstances as well as they can.

drewcoo 5y ago

> push back against the whole "happy work family" mantra I agree wholeheartedly. The company is not my family. It must pay me to be there. I also think "team-building" is ridiculous. If people need to interact more, to socialize, that should be built into the work. Engineering is a group activity. Treating social aspects of it as side-effects is just broken.