4 ms·

Why? I haven’t seen a silver bullet yet, but I always learn something new

by rsfern 4y ago

grishka 4y ago
I think GP's point is that Li-Ion batteries were state of the art 15 years ago, and they still are today. And they aren't much better either, they still degrade from normal use and still expand if you look at them wrong. Except 15 years ago they at least were designed to be easily replaceable.
- Retric 4y ago
  This is a Li-Ion battery because Lithium isn’t one single technology it’s a family of batteries that use Lithium. So lithium titanate, lithium cobalt, lithium manganese oxide, nickel cobalt manganese(NCM), nickel cobalt manganese Aluminum(NCMA), lithium iron phosphate(LFP), and now lithium sulfer are all related but they have very different trade offs. 15 years ago Li-Ion battery tech meant worse trade offs so fewer charge cycles, slower charging, less energy per charge, more costly etc etc. And yes, NCM and NCMA both use lithium.
- 41b696ef1113 4y ago
  Li-ion has made tremendous advances in that time. This article[0] goes through some of the history. Some hot takes: - Price per cell has dropped ~97% since 1991 - 1991 energy density ~200 Wh/liter; 2005 energy density ~500 Wh/liter; 2017 ~700 Wh/liter [0]: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/ee/d0ee02681f https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/ee/d0ee0...
- Tagbert 4y ago
  As Xoa posted in another branch, it’s not true that batteries aren’t much better in the last 15 years. Lithium Ion is not a single type of battery but a category of batteries with many types, each with their own benefits and challenges. Numerous changes have been made to the anode and cathodes to improve stability, power capacity, recharge cycles and cost. Recent efforts have focuses on reducing or removing cobalt. Capacity has grown about 5% per year and general stability has improved. I remember reading articles like this years ago where they talked about using LFP cathodes to improve the stability of batteries. Today LFP batteries are used in some Teslas and probably other vehicles. https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years-away-no-batteries-are-improving-under-your-nose/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years...

Why? I haven’t seen a silver bullet yet, but I always learn something new

by rsfern 4y ago

Why? I haven’t seen a silver bullet yet, but I always learn something new

I think GP's point is that Li-Ion batteries were state of the art 15 years ago, and they still are today. And they aren't much better either, they still degrade from normal use and still expand if you look at them wrong. Except 15 years ago they at least were designed to be easily replaceable.

Retric 4y ago
This is a Li-Ion battery because Lithium isn’t one single technology it’s a family of batteries that use Lithium. So lithium titanate, lithium cobalt, lithium manganese oxide, nickel cobalt manganese(NCM), nickel cobalt manganese Aluminum(NCMA), lithium iron phosphate(LFP), and now lithium sulfer are all related but they have very different trade offs. 15 years ago Li-Ion battery tech meant worse trade offs so fewer charge cycles, slower charging, less energy per charge, more costly etc etc. And yes, NCM and NCMA both use lithium.
41b696ef1113 4y ago
Li-ion has made tremendous advances in that time. This article[0] goes through some of the history. Some hot takes: - Price per cell has dropped ~97% since 1991 - 1991 energy density ~200 Wh/liter; 2005 energy density ~500 Wh/liter; 2017 ~700 Wh/liter [0]: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/ee/d0ee02681f https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/ee/d0ee0...
Tagbert 4y ago
As Xoa posted in another branch, it’s not true that batteries aren’t much better in the last 15 years. Lithium Ion is not a single type of battery but a category of batteries with many types, each with their own benefits and challenges. Numerous changes have been made to the anode and cathodes to improve stability, power capacity, recharge cycles and cost. Recent efforts have focuses on reducing or removing cobalt. Capacity has grown about 5% per year and general stability has improved. I remember reading articles like this years ago where they talked about using LFP cathodes to improve the stability of batteries. Today LFP batteries are used in some Teslas and probably other vehicles. https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years-away-no-batteries-are-improving-under-your-nose/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years...