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It's really a shame that Adobe's absolute garbage treatment of Flash ended up causing, in my opinion, roughly a decade and a half or so of young childrens' and
by jterrys 4y ago
It's really a shame that Adobe's absolute garbage treatment of Flash ended up causing, in my opinion, roughly a decade and a half or so of young childrens' and teens' disinterest in making video games. That niche was somewhat filled partly by Roblox and Minecraft, and today it's getting easier and easier to spin something up in Unity, but there's never been anything quite comparable to the level of simplicity of just making some bullshit in Fireworks and fiddling around with Flash for a few hours while recording audio on a shitty microphone and splicing up old pictures to make a dumb joke. Ah nostalgia
- wodenokoto 4y agoOn one hand, I kinda stand by being against flash, but on the other hand, we aren't really at a better place today than when Flash was all over the place.
- m12k 4y agoI just wish someone had made a good Flash/ActionScript3 -> JS+HTML-Canvas compiler. There's no reason we couldn't have kept the authoring tools just because we got rid of runtime and all its security issues.
- samwillis 4y agoWe now have Ruffle which does more or less what Adobe should have done 10 years ago. https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle If Adobe had seen their ban from the iPhone as a challenge to make Flash player capable of running without a plug-in they would dominate so many areas today. Flex would have become a viable platform to develop web apps/PWAs with - effectively sitting in the same position as what Flutter is doing today (Although I don’t believe Flutter is a one size fits all universal toolkit). I suppose they tried with PhoneGap but without Flash/Flex, which was their super power, they just didn’t have enough value proposition. I suspect they saw the desktop install base of Flash Player as too important to risk loosing by marking it redundant - innovator's dilemma. For some reason they just excepted defeat with Flash.
- smaudet 4y agoWhat about authoring tools? Part of what made flash popular was the photoshop effect.
- spicybright 4y agoRuffle is pretty bad what what I've seen so far. It's not there yet.
- Yoric 4y agoMozilla actually had a really impressive one about 5 years ago... but it was shutdown by Adobe lawyers.
- JoeyJoJoJr 4y agoThe runtime has too much baggage, and Adobe is it’s own worst enemy to keep AnimateCc alive. Instead I would prefer someone rebuild a subset of the authoring tool that sufficiently captures the essence of Flash, with multi-platform targets (including WebGL). I say rebuild Macromedia Flash 5, but with a JavaScript coding environment, and you would have a successful product.
- tshaddox 4y agoPerhaps I’m remembering things incorrectly, but wasn’t Flash the source of a large number of drive-by malware installs, which are much rarer today with modern browsers?
- pell 4y agoThe runtime was definitely a consistent security problem. But the games, animations, etc. people made with Flash did really enrich the internet, I’d say. And Adobe Flash was a powerful tool with a relatively easy entry point for beginners and non-programmers.
- pjmlp 4y agoNowadays they will install a WebAssembly module or use your GPU instead.
- wonderbore 4y agoWe definitely are. Flash websites were super common at all levels; Now you rarely get the over-the-top website with zero accessibility, they’re more expensive. I’m not counting ad tech and the various user-hostile websites because they’d have happened in Flash too (rather, Flash ads were already a thing too)
- chrisco255 4y agoI think the over-the-top interactive sites died off partially because of that but also because it really is a terrible experience in mobile. And mobile web became so important.
- sebazzz 4y agoWasn't Fireworks paid? How would a random teen create a game in it?
- crocodiletears 4y agoThe secret ingredient is crime.
- pjmlp 4y agoMore specifically, street bazaars or a friend from a friend on the school playground.
- chrisco255 4y agoProgz, crackz, and warez.
- OJFord 4y agoNot GP but we were taught to use it in ICT lessons. Could've used it in any lesson/break/after school where computers were available if I'd been so inclined.
- mschuster91 4y ago> How would a random teen create a game in it? Create an Adobe (or, back then, Macromedia - memory is a bit hazy there) account, download the trial of whatever you wanted, download a keygen off of eDonkey or Pirate Bay, run the keygen in some VM so it would not dump some virus on your actual machine, blacklist a boatload of Adobe/Macromedia domains, done.
- antifa 4y agoMute your computer because the otherwise non-malicious keygen is going to blast some chiptune at max volume for no reason.
- egypturnash 4y agoNah, it's got a reason. Celebrate the names of the people who brought you this toy, have a little tiny rave with them for a moment. Say "hey thanks, The Ma$ked Fucker, I'm gonna have some fun with this tool."
- nightowl_games 4y agoI was a kid who tried to teach myself to make flash games and I couldnt figure it out. I had lessons in Fireworks at school and could make gifs, but Flash I could not understand. I couldnt find good tutorials online either. It's way easier for a kid to make a game in Godot today than it ever was in Flash. Also, Godot games run great in the browser. I dont think your general thesis holds up. Way more games are made by young people today than at any point in history.
- whywhywhywhy 4y ago>Flash I could not understand. I couldnt find good tutorials online either. You were probably trying to learn in the late AS2 or AS3 era. The tutorials all became too high level and driven by Flash dev ideas of grown up processes that sure are what you want for building professional work but all raised the roof and the floor at the same time cutting off what was the entry point for teenagers to start creating in Flash. Earlier days there were great resources for getting started.
- glowingly 4y agoI'd also put Roblox in there as well. It absorbed many (IMO) of the minigame creation efforts from Minecraft, FPS mods, and RTS games. Nowadays, probably bigger than all 3 combined (I know one is a game, one is a classification of communities, and the latter is an entire genre), though I only have my own guesses and no hard data to go off of.
- usrn 4y agoIt's really easy to write simple games with the canvas element. I recognize it lacks a lot of the WYSIWYG tooling flash had but you don't need frameworks.
- whywhywhywhy 4y agoEnd of the day the people at the top of Adobe only really saw Flash as owning the web video delivery mechanism. Also it was pretty disgusting how little effort they put into optimization until it threatened them being on iOS. I was knee deep in working with Flash and suddenly one day all the code was running as fast on Mac as it did on Windows. After years of it usually being 30% slower.
- q-big 4y ago> It's really a shame that Adobe's absolute garbage treatment of Flash People praised Steve Jobs' decision that the iPhone shall have no support for Flash, and evangelized that Flash shall be dead - the future shall be HTML5. Everybody who said something else was treated as an Adobe shill.
- dmitriid 4y agoAll points that Jobs made against Flash were correct, as Adobe had really dropped the ball on Flash. After that it was too late, and Adobe killed flash only two years after Jobs' letter.
- macspoofing 4y agoI don't blame Adobe. They tried, but it was the avalanche of negativity (some of it warranted) from all corners of tech that sealed the fate of Flash. What was and is surprising is that when Flash went away it killed Web-based gaming. Capability wise HTML/JS/CSS can replicate anything that Flash could do.. and yet, the scene is still dead.
- bccdee 4y agoDoesn't surprise me at all. The platform upon which the entire web game community was based just disappeared, and "Oh don't worry, here's a radically different stack with much worse tooling that you can learn to use to continue your low-paying passion-driven job as a web game dev" is a pretty bad pitch. So the artists just left.
- aceazzameen 4y agoBecause learning Flash was easier than learning HTML5. The tools and scripting were incredibly easy. No one has made a good easy-to-use HTML5 editor. As complex as Unity can get, it's a better option than learning HTML5 these days. I hope one day a powerful low-friction successor to Flash will appear.
- danamit 4y agoI would say that Flash was artist-oriented, while HTML5 is programmer-oriented.